Another odd rules question

[Nigel]

No imaginary string this time.

If the wind drops and ony one or two boats manage to cross the start line & sail the course (everyone else gets carried back by the tide), are ther clear rules about what percentage has to start for the race not to be abandoned?

[davidh]

Nigel,

a nice easy one this:

The accepted rule is that once one boat has finished, a race should not be abandoned. If no one else could complete the course, the other competitors could try a claim for redress.

However, please note that I said the 'accepted rule': Once again there is a huge loophole left open. The rules state that once a boat has finished, the Race should not be abandoned without careful consideration for all the competitors.

Remember also that in conditions such as this there is also the issue of getting across the line within 4 minutes of the start.(some local SIs may vary this but 4 mins is the default). Ergo- if you've not broken the line in 4 mins then you're not a starter - sounds like a redress claim somewhere there.

One would have to wonder what the RO thought he was doing - you're far better off abandoning early and then re-running the race than getting into a state, letting a situation continue, then trying to sort it out.

Pat and Jon...care to comment?

indeed - Pat and Jon...what flags should be used, what sound signals, what happens to the race that is abandoned. In a series, if you abandon race 3, what race number is next: The re-run of 3 or race 4? What about an abandoned race that was started under a black flag: a boat that was OCS, can she sail in the re-run?

D

[jon711]

If more than one boat has crossed the line, race is on. However if I were PRO and had seen this coming, would have postponed waiting for wind, and if no wind came abandonded the race. I actually beleive that the boats only need to be in the vicinity of the start line (But expect to be corrected!!)

AP for postponment
N over A for no more racing today... (I didn't even need to get the books out for that!!)

Jon

[Garry R]

I was racing in my first restored Merlin, 1728 Proctor IXb, at the racing at the Portsoy Traditional Boat Festival, in 2005 I think it was. There were Drascombes, Gaffers, Luggers, Buggers, all manner of stuff all handicapped somehow. The "Race" organisation was a shambles and I should have been well warned. The Merlin was the fastest thing there and we shot round the two lap course in no time at all. There was no gun or hooter (they had forgotten they might have been needed) as such just flags and not flags you would recognise and we duly finished well ahead of everybody and went ashore after some cracking reaches post race. At the prize distribution that night my crew and I were in position to go and accept the rather nice commissioned plate first prize from a local potter when the announcer said "And the first prize" (now we're half out of our seats) "is" (almost standing) "Mr" (almost walking) "Smithson" (sitting rapidly down) "in a Cornish Crabber" (collapses in wonder). It, on further investigation, appeared that the Committee boat were paying so little attention to the racing that when we came round to the finish line after the second lap after about 50mins sailing, the Crabber was 20yards ahead of us but they hadn't realised he had only just crossed the start line. The guy in the Crabber at the prizegiving was as bemused as we were. The whole fleet (about 100 boats) were scratching their heads. The Committee were applauding like mad at a great result, and I imagine a job well done by themselves. The hall was otherwise silent. There were some strange looks towards me and encouragement to protest but I hadn't the inclination. The guy had his lovely plate and honestly, I only think about the incident once or twice a week now that it's five years on. I haven't eaten dressed crab since. It must be the only time a Crabber has beaten a Merlin. He must wonder when he looks at the plate quite how he managed to sail 20yards and win without going round the course at all.


In case you think this is a fictional anecdote I can assure you it isn't. I was there!!!!!

[davidh]

Gary

I wish I could say that this is an isolated incident but sadly it isn't - there are just too many races that are spoilt by poor Race Management. "we've always done it like this" is no excuse for serving up racing that in many cases is just plainly unfair (as I would describe the situation posed by Nigel)

The RYA have been really good at addressing this problem at National and Regional level, but seem to have rather lost the plot when it comes down to doing something about the next 'layers' down. I know from my own experience and that of others on this forum that responses to the 'Adult/Grassroots sailing initiative' have been patchy....

When I was writing the Contender Book I was reminded of some Race Team 'Howlers' that just defy belief, making Gary's incident seem pretty good (including one Italian Team that started the Race then went for lunch......were brought back up on deck by a competitor banging on the hull wanting to know if he'd finished).....

D

[Rupert]

If the race is black flagged and you are binned, then you are out of the re run. As for whether the next race is Race 3 or race 4, as in your example, most of the time I've come across it, the next race at the scheduled time with be the advertized race, with the re run race slipped in after. Not sure it has to be this way, though. Important to know if you are the black flagged boat...

As for the original question, it was this way many times on the Thames when I was growing up. There was no time limit for crossing the line that I can remember (sensible now if there is) and we could be 100 yeads or more below the line, waiting for a puff to take us up and round the top mark. Quite, quite mad.

Mind, I was racing in no wind yesterday in the Mirror. Beat all the Lasers on the water and won overall. Much muttering from the Laser EPS sailor!
Kathryn then went out in Saskia and lapped all but 2 boats. Was good to watch!

[chris]

A year or two ago we were sailing Iska at Ranalagh. The start was against the (strong) tide and into a very light wind. We managed to pass the start lines six times, being swept back each time, but we never made the first mark!, At least we weren't the only ones.

[Ed]

Ha.

I have had similar or worse ignominy...

Did Bourne End week one year.

Fell into the wind-shadow behind trees on other bank, no more than 20m behind start line. The fleet started and we just couldn't get across the line. Saw the likes of Laurie Smart and others do a whole lap and lap us before we had even managed to get across the start line.

God it was frustrating.....and right in front of the clubhouse.

The whole week Rozzer was going so badly.....on the last day as I got him out, I discovered that a piece of the plastic laminate from c-board case was coming out when board was down and acting as a complete water-anchor, only to disappear each time the board went up into the case. Never would of noticed except on last day I raced, I was so pissed off I didn't put him back on trailer properly and board was slightly down.

eib

[Pat]

Sounds a lot like the vintage Merlins at Tamesis in 2007 when Jonathan and us and a few other boats were sitting still and trying to catch what wind we could and were lapped by the pumping Thames fleet.

[Nigel]

Nothing so nefarious.

The rest of the fleet went over to the far side of the river as there appeared to be more wind there. I hugged the bank on the side nearest the slipway to keep out of the tide. The one minute hooter sounded, the wind droppped to nothing. I pushed my daggerboard down into the mud and sat there whilst the rest of the fleet drifted backwards around horseshoe bend and out of site. The start hooter sounded and I picked up the odd gust to cross the start line and sail the course.

I sailed for over an hour without even seeing another competitor - They were all drifting towards the Suspension Bridge.

A moral victory and the opportunity for much ribbing afterwards in the clubhouse (when they had eventually been towed home) .

[jon711]

Just re-reading this, during Oulton Week if a race is abandoned (When Anglia TV turn up to film, we always seem to get force 9-10 gales!!), the race (or day!!) is ditched, and not rescheduled. Maybe we need to write this into the SI's???

If we were only catering for modern plastic bathtubs, sailing would still have been on!! But we have too many old boats that if we held a race, they would start.... Recovering Broads Half Deckers, Broads River Cruisers etc some over a 100 years old, with broken masts, would have defeated our (Very good) Sea Cadet Rescue Team..

Indeed on both occasions that we have abandoned racing for the day, I was consulted by the Commodore, and he acted on my advice. However, I did have to correct the flag hoist, which initially was just code flag N (Live on Anglia TV!!) to N over A..

Jon

[Ancient Geek]

Do you have the archive Anglia coverage going back to 1961 & 1962? If so you might see AG being interviewed!