Any idea what this is please?

an area to discuss dinghy developments
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Southern377
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:00 am
Location: Lancing, West Sussex

Any idea what this is please?

Post by Southern377 »

This looks like what I am seeking but I would like a better idea of exactly what it might be. Can anyone assist please?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :IT&ih=017

Many thanks.

Alan. Southern377.
davidh
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Post by davidh »

Alan,

a penny to a nine bob note this is a nice wooden version of a 'Torch' Dinghy.

For a muti pruspose dinghy these were once the 'business' - which accounted for their popularity with Scout Group and other sail teahing establishments.

They used to race these too - they've a generous handicap, so could be quite 'interesting'.

I guess it depends what you're looking for.

On ebay there is also an Ian proctor boat - the Marlin, which, by being all GRP, might just need a god jet washing and polish. Another good boat in this genre is the Otter.

Does look interesting though....
David
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Southern377
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Any idea what this is please?

Post by Southern377 »

Hi David,

Many thanks. I also spotted the Marlin.

A R Burrett's Dinghy Recognition lists the Torch as GRP. All my other books don't mention it at all.

Cheers.

Alan.
davidh
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Post by davidh »

Alan,

no - the original boats were in wood - it's a god old fashioned mulit chine design.

The issues with the Torch - going way back into the mists of time now, were that as it was intended as a boat that was very much a training vessel, it ail area was kept modest.

When construction started in grp, the Torch may have suffered from the scourge of early 'plastic' boats in the fact that they were heavy. The same applied I seem to recall bedeviled the early GRP hronet and fireballs. Big, flat panels were not the best use of the 'new' medium at the time.

It's one of the really old chestnuts this: what will be the 'primary' role of the boat? Is it just for 'messing around in' - or do you hope to use it maybe at CVRDA (or similar) events? If the latter is somewhere in mind then do not forget to take into account that I don't think the Torch is such a good weight carrier - those long flat pannels in the aft sections will 'drag 'orribly' in the light stuff if you're arrying a few extra kilos!
It is wrong to think in terms though purely of performance. The Otter is a sweet little boat if you want the hassle free grp aspect - the Marlin the same but just a bit bigger (and a better weight carrier too) - and has the benefit of a neat little spinnaker!

Don't forget the gull/Firefly/heron/ plus others... BUT, whatever, keep us all informed of progress, all the more so if you go to see it.

Looking forward to seeing any of these at Netley next year!

D
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JimC
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Post by JimC »

davidh wrote:For a muti pruspose dinghy these were once the 'business'
They were **horrible**. Experienced them a few times...
davidh
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Post by davidh »

Alan,

I hate to say it but JimC has rather put the spotlight firmly onto the Torch as a 'preferred' boat. I guess we are both right in our observations, the only difference s the point of perspective!

At the time that the Torch was in 'common' use they were probably one of the better options for teaching kids (and adults) to sail. As a teaching boat they'd not be used in strong winds as I recall them having something of a reputation for a nasty 'deathroll' when running downwind in breeze.

Yup....lots of wetted area, underpowered and a tendency to behave badly in wind and wave - maybe Jim had it right - 'horrible'.

I notice that there are now 2 Marlins on ebay (though one is called a Merlin - it' that tape measure again), just like buses, you wait for ages then 2 come along at once.

One can see the Ian Proctor thinking in this - I'd be surprised that if one scaled up the lines that there would not be much in it with those of a Kestrel.

But, as always, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. That there are better boat back there in the mists of history is all too clear. From the Vagabond, the 11+, to the GRP boats already mentioned (otter, Marlin) then the real big boys of the genre (using big in a literative meaning) - the Heron and Gull - plus a host of others, the important thingis that they are al 'classics' - some are just more desireable than others!

D
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Southern377
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Post by Southern377 »

Many thanks for your thoughts. I will snuff out the 'torch' and look elsewhere!

I am keeping an eye on both Marlins. I too spotted the error..... Did you notice the Challenger?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :IT&ih=005

Looks like lots of work though.....your thoughts on if worth it?

Here's my shopping list thinking......
I am returning after a long gap. Nothing too unstable!
Have two children (6 & 8 ) I would like to encourage. Sit in not perch on.
We live at Lancing so seaworthy would be useful.
Something I could also sail single-handed and manage ashore on my own.
...and of course limited budget....

Over to you Maestro.........
Rupert
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Post by Rupert »

£30 and reserve not met with a great big hole in the bottom - probebly not good value. Unless you are looking for something very unusual, try going for a Mirror. You might pay a little more to begin with, but you'll get your money back when you sell, and you'll have a cracking little boat between times.
Rupert
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Post by Garry R »

AND they come up in different states of repair on ebay and elsewhere all the time. Gp or an Enterprise as a next step - discuss? I learnt with my Dad in 1962 in an Enterprise when I was 11 and looking back it seemed thrilling to the extent I gave up for 40 years (dammit) but the experience obviously lived in the soul all those years until I now live the fun again. Thank goodness I got going again before it was too late.
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Trevor C
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Post by Trevor C »

I agree with Rupert, a Mirror makes lots of sense and are fun to sail especially when windy. I am just sorting out a spinnaker which will make it more interesting and they are easy to move about, tow etc. I would be happy to sail without safety boat cover in the Mirror.

I have not sailed an Enterprise but used to own a GP14 and they are fine, but still prefer the Mirror which can I can rig and launch in under 10 minutes, handy when you have children.
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jpa_wfsc
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Post by jpa_wfsc »

Also consider the Miracle - the extra foot of waterline length over the Mirror makes for a more useable sea boat if you sail anywhere with tides, but the Miracle remains light on shore and can be sailed S/H easily.

Or for more rarity appeal try and find a Pacer - which is also much quicker.
j./

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davidh
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Post by davidh »

well Alan,

as you can see - there are as many options as there are contibutors to this site so in the end it all comes back to you, to what catches your eye, what is in budget......... phew, what a choice you face.

Of all the comments made, (which are all equally valid, for everyone's recommendation, from Mirrors on up,are all for very good boats0, the one that strikes the best chord is for the Miracle. They are a 'nice' boat in the small, 'multi purpose' genre, are a damn sight lighter to move around than a GP14 and have a fraction more inherent stability than an Enterprise.

Your children will soon grow so having something that carries a bit of weight a tad better might be an advantage. If it wasn't for the fact that you're looking on the classic website the obvious choice would be for a Wanderer..... now there is a somewhat contentious statement but one that is well intended. Go even more modern an dthere are any number of plastic/grp boats- but then you're sailing something with almost no sense of history.

Have you made the right choice in turning your back on the Torch for sale on e-bay? No one can answer that for you BUT.....maybe, just maybe you escaped with yuor wallet intact there. I would still go back to my original comments, right at the start of this string, that looking at what is available 'today' I would at very least take a look at the marlin, for as the saying goes, "maybe you could do better, but then you could also do a damn site worse"

D
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Michael Brigg
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Post by Michael Brigg »

Just been reading this and I think the really important issue is about getting something that you and your children can sail in. Something that will enable you as an " old man" to spend the sailing equivalent of time "kicking a ball around in the garden! Also to introduce them to a lifetime of garuanteed good company
The real art here is to get their mother on board so something that won't take you out of the house into the garage at bath time is really critical. Something their mother will also want to sail in (assuming she isnt a sailor already). A major restoration is guaranteed to cause trouble and possibly even a loss of interest as children despite our best intentions are so distractable these days. They will tire of their mother cursing the boat and will shun anything that causes a marital dispute.
Get somethig usable first and save the project for later.
Children in boats are quickly bored and easily discouraged. Even a mirror sail will seem huge. I would recommend starting in something which allows them to make their own journeys and adventures not only in Lancing but also lakes and rivers you may visit.
Sailing is about all boatmanship and confidence. Rowing, balance on an unstable hull as well as playing. A mirror can do all of these and the children will have a sense of posession and a ready-made class in any club you join. A Topper for all of its failings and overpriced 2nd hand market also does this and my own 11yr old enjoys seeing how many times she can capsize it. More of a swimming platform but the bug is slowly taking hold.
Personally I think an Avon redcrest is a classic of its kind. It doubles as a garden paddling pool. It is a comfortable picnic seat on a stony (or sandy) beach and 2 children age 6 & 8 can make "epic" journeys in them on safe waters fostering all the independece you want. A small outboard motor can be used for additional learning (Electric or petrol) and it's maintenance free and car boot or car toppable for excurtions & holidays. You will never sell it, always have a use for it, and may even give it a name
Happy hunting
Michael.
Michael Brigg
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