Yachting World Scow

an area to discuss dinghy developments
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Ed
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Post by Ed » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:21 pm

Oh yea....I remember now.

Wish I could find my Merlin book.....

it is not the fact that it is worth so damn much, I just really miss referring to it.

Looked everywhere....blast it!

Dont disagree about any of the boats you mention....all well within the 'ethos'.....but strangely enough.....for me a 25 year old lost class potentially worries me more than a 25 year old dev class. At least with the Dev Class we know what we are getting.

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

Rod
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Big scows, little scows

Post by Rod » Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:56 am

Scows are fun. I spent part of my teenage years on the 18' Y-flyer. Nothing better downwind in flat water and a breeze.

There is a neat YouTube video of the large American A-scows. Hull design from the early 1900's but fully hotted up now. You can get a good feel for the speed of these monsters from the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYcRu_45eXM

I have seen only one Topper over in the States. I was able to chat up the owner and cop a ride. A little unnerving with the plastic hull undulating in the chop and the battenless rig was very underpowered for an adult. I imagine a Topper would be just the ticket to blast around the lake in a Force 5 when you didn't want to work too hard.

We have the 12' Butterfly scow in the States. Mostly centered around the lakes in Michigan, they have recently registrered 60 scows for their Nationals. Have yet to sail one.
Rod M
Annapolis MD USA

http://www.earwigoagin.blogspot.com
http://cbifda.blogspot.com/

Classic Moth: 105
PK Dinghy

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Ed
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Post by Ed » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:43 am

I am beginning to think I like any boat with an A on the sail.

Wow....don't those A-scows go

and an older history than the IC!

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

alan williams
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Post by alan williams » Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:08 am

YW Scow had handling problems due to th Ackerman effect of the twin rudders which had to be discontected and one allowed to feather. Reports were that whilst it looked very impressive a Thai MKiV could blow it in to the weeds .It was a very expensive boat at the time which proberbly did n't help with sales, brute force forcing alot of water along. However I have to agree that on seeing an A Class Scow sailing when in the states that was a truely impressive sight. Although a Hornet sailor for most of my life I'm admitting to owning a Fireball for several years but gave it up as it was too easy to sail. At one time (as a Student) also owned a Voodoo Scow Moth very fast in the right conditions would see off Contenders and Fireballs on a reach.
As regards Lost Classes I feel that If a boat was an design failure and never taken up it should be included. I would include the Proton as an example. Some of these classes failed for a variety of reasons they were not an improvement on the boats available at the time, resistance from clubs with established fleets and other classes played a big part, to difficult to sail at the time. Some were pretty rubbish others were made by small manufactures with out big budgets to launch them. Prototypes are vital in this section and I feel that the first boat used as a trial boat for any class should also be here. I have sailed Hornet number Two which would not measure as a Hornet as the ply to build her was thinner and the dimensions of the boat were greater than the Hornet that was released to the public. Therefore not a Hornet but a Hornet Prototype. Unfortunately this boat went to the great boat park in the sky in the early seventies. Lost boats I would like to see are a weird looking boat that was built and sailed on Bala lake but failed due to being very strange but also a direct compeditor to the newly lauched Fireball and the established Hornet. Challengers, Darings, Wales OD, Flying Ten's and Twelves, 11+, Alpha, Mirror 16, Skua's, Ken11 and Typhoons you have a home in the lost classes. This holds for a lot of lost classes started by enthusiasts and then dissappearing as they were not taken up. So dig out all those Essex OD's complete with white hand bags, Oxey Birds, Dart OD, Mayflowers and now Dolphins. There is still a place for you as Vintage CVRDA boats. The defination of a lost class is pretty flexible but there must be a merit to the boat to include it rarity, design, few in number, one off, Class Assoc. disbanded, not a failed manufactorers class. such as the Iso, twin trapeze Buzz thing.
Cheers Al Lost Class Shark and Dolphins even the Nacra would count as a lost class only 8 imported to the UK.

PS doea anyone know if the Jack Holt designed Amber Jack (Sixties 12 foot skiff with bowsprit) ,stiill exist or whether there are still some Jack Snipes (commisioned as an update on the International Snipe), about?
Last edited by alan williams on Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

davidh
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Post by davidh » Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:39 pm

Rod,

get my current project - on the great designers, out the way and next will be something on the scows...so watch this space!

D
David H

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jon711
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Yachting World Scow

Post by jon711 » Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:42 pm

Further to the earlier comments on the Yachting World Scow we believe that this is the Voodoo sat in the dinghy park at Waveney and Oulton Broad YC for many years as an abandonned hulk.

It was restored by Mike Barnes at Norflok Broads Yacht Company and sold to a consortium of 5 chaps some years back.

They brought it to Oulton Week about 5 years ago. Not enough wind for them. She looked good though.

davidh
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Post by davidh » Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:45 pm

Jon,

thanks for this - any clues as to how the consortium could be tracked down?

D
David H

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jon711
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Post by jon711 » Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:54 pm

I've got no info on them I'm afraid - don't think they are even menbers of the club any more. The boat seems to have dissappeared from the local scene. Mike Barnes may know more info.....

andrew
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Post by andrew » Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:17 pm

I have emailed Paul Neve a member of the consortium and I am sure he will post a reply.
He suggested the boat is in need of a new home.
I contacted him last year having seen a picture of the boat in the CVRDA quiz.
It sounds as though it has been well looked after and has had a huge asymetric spinnaker added.

davidh
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Post by davidh » Wed Oct 31, 2007 9:42 am

In looking into the YW scow I've come up with some great 'personal interest' stories........ a lovely one about the building of the first hull, the builders (am not giving that one away!) had to take a window unit out, then lift the finished hull out into the street!

Sadly, this is yet another instance when some of the key 'movers and shakers' of the time are no more - with the result that some great pictures and detail may be lost for good.

I'm also 'in the market' for pictures on...

Bullet
Tempo - I can lift one of those I think of the German website
Scow moth
The monster Fireball
Flipper (now who remembers the Flipper....)

and any other scows that collectively have been around in those glory days for the 'genre'..... you know, BS (that's not Bull S**T) but before skiffs!

D
David H

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Ed
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Post by Ed » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:16 am

Might have a photo of the oversized Fireball.....

but not sailing - in storage.

Andrew Thornhill had one in his collection in Bristol when Bob Corefield was looking after it.

I think it went to Lowestoft.....

but from there it might of gone to Ayemouth....or wherever....who knows

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

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JohnK
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Bullet info

Post by JohnK » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:49 am

I had a message from a guy in Switzerland about the Bullet for the DinghyData site. I've posted it below. I have his contact details, so I'll point him to this discussion.

I would like to give you some informations about the "Bullet" for your very interesting site.
I own a Bullet since nearly 30 years, she was built by Jack Chippendale in Wroxham, the designer was Peter Milne "who also designed a strange boat named Caboodle".
she is 4.20m long, and weight 64 kilos. Sail area 10 sq.m. Spinaker 10 sq.m. one trapeze
The construction was stitch and glue plywood-polyester, later Jack made a mould and some were made of grp.
The boat is a real pleasure with some breeze, I think she was intended to be a trainer for the fireball, but the fireball class never helped the bullet to develop.


John (N1662)

davidh
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Post by davidh » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:02 am

I think one of the issues was 'lack of waterline length'. The Bullets that I saw sailing seemed to stop dead each time they hit a wave, yet never seemed to really get up and go unless there was plenty of breeze.

Other issues? I guess Youth sailing then was nothing like it is now. If you were in short trousers and lucky, you sailed a Cadet or a Mirror, but for most of us, youth meant crewing. A boat like a Bullet needed the same amount of fittings, sails and 'support' as a full sized Fireball, so to give such a boat to a 'sprog' was only a small 5 lessthan letting him loose on the full sized boat. The other big barrier was that there was a clear progression path - Oppy, Cadet, 420 -hard to break into that clique.

Would love to see the Bullet though, if only to see if the thoughts are 'right'. Sadly, it was not unique - after all, what happened to the '405'!

D
David H

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JohnK
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Post by JohnK » Wed Oct 31, 2007 3:12 pm

And the 370, and the 404...

I also had some correspondance with a Jacksnipe owner who described it as "the best designed boat I ever owned (and I've had Fireballs, 505, Hornet, 420, Laser 2 etc.), with an almost perfect buoyancy/self-draining arrangement, including a deep footwell for the helmsman. Easy to sail but quick."

Unfortunately I've lost the contact.

John (N1662)

alan williams
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Post by alan williams » Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:46 pm

Hi Ed big Fireball was called a Calypso.
Al

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