my new old firefly

[Ed]

Numbers make sense to me.....although would be interested in other thoughts from Michael & Rupert.

Would think:

3048 is the shell No

3000 is the class registered No

These numbers are never in sync and get gradually more out of sync as more shells are made but not registered.

Even with early boats they can be out as the boats were built in batches.

So my early Jollyboat has shell no: 2 but is registered boat no 3

My Firefly is shell No 2956, but is boat No 2942.

It does seem strange that there is only 14 between the two numbers in my case .....which has always surprised me as I would suspect it to be more like the difference between yours of 48.

Specially as there are only 58 between yours and mine......

There also seem to be some differences where the numbers are found...

As far as getting rigidity in the board case goes.....

If you have to remove it....do....but it is quite a bit of work and if you can get away with not taking it out, I would. I did some pretty extensive fixing whilst it was in place.

To add rigidity, you can add struts from the end of case - out to the floor or in my case end of tanks. This really does help tons.

Otherwise, it is just a case of pulling out all the failed glue and replacing with warm epoxy and then epoxy fillets along bottom edge of case-to-hull join.

easy enough stuff

cheers

eib

[Michael Brigg]

I thought the discrepancy in shell to sail number was mainly accounted for by boats that were made for the armed forces (mainly the RAF) to use in places like Egypt during the 1950's. These boats obviously generated shell numbers but were not class registered.

A few were also exported abroad, (one of the only means of being allowed to use scarce supplies of wood in the immediate post war years for leisure boat building was if it was for the export market or in support of an Olympic selection campaign.)

A few more were made to replace hulls that were beyond repair. John Tagg's F154 is one example of this.

The class introduced a rule in the 1970/80's requiring all boats in the NFA to have the sail number indelibly carved "in numerals not less than 1inch" (or thereabouts) into the Hog of the boat. This was because the shell number on the builders plate was causing increasing confusion due to this discrepancy when it came to identifying boats or hulls which had become separated from their sails or for that matter when the builders plate was lost or removed during revarnishing or transom replacement etc. The hull number can often be found as well but is in 1/2 inch numerals and quite thin indentation. The sail number if present has usually been done by the owner to a varying degree of style and competence. Sometimes very large and quite deeply, even lovingly carved into the wood behing the centreplate.

Ed said:

To add rigidity, you can add struts from the end of case

I think the best (and easiest) position for these is from the top of the centreplate strut which supports the pivot bolt and out to the bracing piece that supports the shroud, level with the top of the boyouncy tank. This is not going to infringe class rules about struts within the boat (see somewhere in Gozzy's thread about platecase repair)...

Rule11 (miscellaneous) Para (c) part v which states:

"The following are not permitted:....
v.) Fixed struts or toe strap bars between a line 2070mm forward of the transom and a line 900mm forward of the transom."

...and won't infringe the crew's personal space. It will also act as a good attachment for control line cleats etc. (but not toe straps which must go to a point in front of the mast foot.


The Class does however have an archive of all the numbers which you can access through the firefly website.

[ACB]

As a boy, living with my parents in Tripoli, Libya, then visiting from school in England, in the years 1962-68 , I recall that the Tripoli Dolphin Yacht Club, which was connected with the UK Forces presence, had a fleet of three RNSA 14's, some GP14s and some Fireflies, and did a deal with the RN on Malta whereby we got their GPs and they got our Fireflies. These were Mark Ones, I think.

Earlier, I had put in a strut running across from the forward face of the case to the side tanks, which helped a bit, and I had terminated the toe straps on that - if I understand the Class Rules correctly, that was wrong?

[Michael Brigg]

A few interesting points here.

First of all you confirm the presence of Fireflies in the mediteranean although I don't think anyone doubt's this, it being a well known part of the Firefly history. Given the dates mentioned they could only have been Mark 1's. It's an interesting touch to hear about the swapping of boats however.

The RNSA boats are rare beasts these days as when the Navy changed over to bosuns the officer in charge was told to just "get rid" of the old fleet and the story I heard is that in typically economic and barbarous act of military vandalism this was interpreted as "destroy." Apparently a huge funeral pyre ensued and only the few on loan to enthusiasts and in far flung ports survived.

There was one for sale (with original plans) in sussex about a year ago and the only other sight of one I have seen is a scale model in the Greenwich maritime museum collection:-



With reference to your firefly:-

The Strut you describe between the front ends of the tanks is legal I think as it is more than "2070mm in front of the transom." I'm not sure what this rule is trying to prevent but I suspect it is a means of preventing any fancy "sitting out" arangements.

Most older fireflies being raced have plate stiffeners for the front end of the box as do all the new plastic boats so clearly this is "in class" although there is no rule so far as I am aware regulating the form or position of your stiffener other than the restriction noted.

[Garry R]

There are a couple of RNSAs which attend the Portsoy Traditional Boat Festival every year and I know of one owned by a guy at Forfar Sailing Club awaiting restoration though. I would give my eye teeth for one ......

[Michael Brigg]

I would suggest that dental services in Tripoli might be less than satisfactory but these sort of locations of old empire might be the only pockets of survival. (eg There's a fleet of Dublin Water Wags still active in Sri Lanka!)

[ACB]

I know where the very last RNSA 14 to be built is. Alas, having been the pride and joy of a previous owner she is now neglected, though at least afloat. Unfortunately her present owner is both wealthy and awkward, so I don't see a way to rescue her yet.

[Ed]

My old neighbour here in Calstock was the 'Commander' in charge of the RNSAs at Dartmouth RN College.

He assured me he was told to burn them....and burn them he did!

I learnt this as part of an interesting chat, where he started off by telling me about all the '14s' he had burnt....

It took me a while to realise it was RNSAs he was talking about and not int14s.

with the strut for the firefly.....I am sure it is legal.....but not to attach your hiking straps too.

The navy got lots of Fairey boats too....and took them all around the world.

I have somewhere a lovely photo of a Navy Swordfish being sailed with great gusto.....but without a deck. no explanation of whether the Navy took it off or whether it was built that way.

cheers

eib

[MartinH]

My old neighbour here in Calstock was the 'Commander' in charge of the RNSAs at Dartmouth RN College.

He assured me he was told to burn them....and burn them he did! ......

eib

I remember the Dartmouth RNSAs in the late 70s. By then they only seemd to be used very occassionally and then only for pulling, but like all navalboats they well maintained.

[Michael Brigg]

He assured me he was told to burn them

...I'm sure he was, but in keeping with the command structure of the Armed forces, it was still a...

barbarous act of military vandalism.

If they had to make a point couldn't they have just painted them battleship grey? Or if they disliked the boats so much perhaps made them over to use by those on punishment fatigues? after all,...

like all navalboats they were all well maintained.

This story gives me nightmares!

[Rupert]

Back to the Firefly centreboard strut thing - where does it say you can't fit your roe straps to them? The rule says you aren't allowed strut or toe strap bar aft of a certain point, as above, but I can't see mention of not fixing toestraps to a legal strut? Could be unwise, but I don't think illegal?

[Michael Brigg]

Rupert said:-

where does it say you can't fit your roe straps to them?

As you said, assuming this is a yachtsman's Jock stap...

Could be unwise, but I don't think illegal

David, perhaps this explains Rupert's "white knuckles?"

I've often thought the same after someone else said it wasn't legal but I must confess I couldn't find chapter and verse on this either. I think the question was raised at a championships when I had toe holds (as used on trapeze boats to stop the crew catapulting round the forestay) fitted to either side of the plate case behind the thwart. This was partly to stop me sliding back on a smooth deck (See also Ed, Chamois leather (false) and polish, in the "Solid foam bouyancy thread,") and partly to help me back on board if ever I overcooked a roll tack or was caught out when a gust of wind suddenly backed. (I'm sure we've all experienced this.)

The measurer at that time said they were illegal, presumably interpreting the:-

"no fixed strut or toe hold attachment..." as
"No fixed strut, or toe hold attachment..."

Anyone who was in the restaurant when the Panda fired the revolver will understand what I mean.

On review the rule states:- "..toe hold bars..." so I reckon that a.) My toe holds should have been legal and b.) I agree with Rupert that if the strut is legal you can attach your straps (of whatever type and function) to them.

[ACB]

Thank you. What an agreeably erudite Forum this is!

I found it quite a good place for the toe straps; it "located" them rather nicely. But I suppose they "belong" on the anchor point forward of the mast where the bow bag straps go?

Incidentally, a previous owner moved the toe straps outboard on the thwart; I am inclined to move them in again.

[Rupert]

Just depends how long your legs are...
I have my toestraps going forward, and held out to the side tank with rope at the point where the strut is. I'm not sure I'd want to put all the strain of a hiking crew onto the case, and the struts work in compression, so don't need the huge screws needed for sideways force.

[ACB]

Good idea; I will shamelessly copy it, using bungee cord in place of the rope.