Pisces

an area to discuss dinghy developments
Nigel
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Pisces

Post by Nigel » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:45 pm

Hi all,

I put the finishing touches to the Pisces yesterday so it is ready for its inaugeral first sail at Whitefriars (expect something to fall off and me to fall in :? ). I haven't even had it wet yet so it may not float :shock: .

The usual internet research has failed to turn up any evidence at all of another Pisces still in existence. If anyone sees one on their travels, please let me know.

Nigel

Rupert
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Re: Pisces

Post by Rupert » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:42 pm

Glad to hear you are ready. I've finished putting strengthening under the Tonic decks, so we have a contest! Maybe we should write it up as a comparitive boat test for Y&Y...
Rupert

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jpa_wfsc
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Re: Pisces

Post by jpa_wfsc » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:57 pm

DSM, surely?

Also DH might interview you both for a podcast?

john./

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Nessa
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Re: Pisces

Post by Nessa » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:00 pm

Can we have pictures of the first sail? Then we know what to look for. :shock:
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Nigel
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Re: Pisces

Post by Nigel » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:27 pm

Hi all,

I hope there will be pictures and maybe video (possibly £250 from "You've been Framed" :shock: ). In the meantime, here is the old ebay page with pictures from when I bought it - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0297981228

Looking forward to trying her against the Tonic but my spies tell me that Rupert has an aggressive sailing style so I might let him win (get the excuses in early :oops: ).

More seriously, I would find it interesting to compare both boats with a Laser (£1 in the swear box). From a historical perspective, why did the L**** succeed whist these fell by the wayside. Was it really corporate might and the power of advertising or is it a much better boat? I have some suspicions on this that I will share once I have sailed her.

If DSM actually wanted to do one of their side by side comparative boat tests, I would loan her with pleasure :P

Nigel

Nigel
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Re: Pisces

Post by Nigel » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:46 pm

BTW to give an idea of the high standard of work done, one of the jobs yesterday was to fit an end cap to the top of the mast. I was concerned that the bare tube would wear a hole. I spent half an hour wandering round the kitchen with my verniers and the mast now boasts the lid from a Bovril jar fixed firmly to the top :D .

davidh
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Re: Pisces

Post by davidh » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:50 pm

Nigel,

careful now... I might end up sailing your boat (for DSM) and yes, I can see where you'd go with a Laser comparison. I'd be careful though as Laser are not the easiest of folk to cross swords with....... and, to be honest, you'd need a laser with nothing better than a 4 digit sail number ( wooded board, elvstrom sail etc) so that you were comparing apples with apples.

Again - the trick in all of this is to find the 'angle' - what is it about any of these boats that will make for an interesting article? Find that - and the rest is easy!

BTW - in the early days, the advertising from Laser was prett low key! Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but.............

D
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Nigel
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Re: Pisces

Post by Nigel » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:06 pm

Hi David,

my suspicion is that the biggest differentiator between the Pisces and the Laser is the quality of the spars, sails and latterly controls. The Pisces hull looks to me to be a nice shape although slightly less waterline length than the laser

The original Pisces sail is an unbattened rag. I luckily have the later battened racing sail as well so will see how that goes. It is almost identical in size to a laser so if I win a bit on the lottery, a Laser replica is a relatively cheap new alternative.

The Pisces spars are nowhere near as robust as the laser (particularly the boom) so cannot take the same amount of kicker etc.

Early 70s PYs indicate 103 for the Pisces against 95 for the Laser which does seem a very big difference.

Looking forward to finding out on the water and would value others' observations.

Nigel

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PeterV
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Re: Pisces

Post by PeterV » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:36 pm

I wasn't going to come along to Whitefriars becasue my Finn's tucked up in the garage being looked after for the first time and I didn't think my 6 month old Laser was eligible, but seeing as you asked.......
PeterV
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Nigel
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Re: Pisces

Post by Nigel » Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:08 pm

Hi Peter,

we would of course have to swap halfway through in the interests of a proper "control" standard. :)

Another thought I had was that the Pisces uses a rowlock type thing instead of a gooseneck and I wondered whether this would make a significant difference with the boom not rotating the mast.

Nigel

Nigel
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Re: Pisces

Post by Nigel » Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:19 pm

davidh wrote: I'd be careful though as Laser are not the easiest of folk to cross swords withD
Would Laser be that worried about a comparison of 35 year old boats against a competitor that no longer exists? The likely outcome is that their boat would come out on top anyway. If they declined to help, I am sure we could ask RS to sponsor it . Does anyone know someone that sails one of those? :lol: .

I guess the reality is that they have influence (advertising revenue) over the magazine but they certainly have none with me.

Please have a go in it David . I have never sailed a Laser 1 (too fat) so cannot make any judgements on that score.

Nigel

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Re: Pisces

Post by davidh » Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:59 pm

Nigel,

I'm in the lucky position of having sailed at some time just about all of these boats - from a Minisail right up to the latest and greats RS thingy. THis is a far too great a range to compare, so what I'll do is break them down into 'heavy metal', 'middle of the road' and 'byte sized' (do you like the pun??)

I have to tell you, you'll be surprised at the results:

Heavy metal. The nominations are:-

Contender, RS 600, RS 700, Musto skiff, IC, Unit

Middle of the road:-

Phantom, Finn, Blaze, Solution, Harrier, Vareo, RS 300

Byte sized:-

Byte, Solo, Steaker, OK, Pisces, sea-bat, Laser, Minisail, Supernova, Europe, Comet, Lightning368 and I've no doubt a whole host more.

And the winners are...............

Heavy Metal - Contender. Other boats may be quicker, but when the going gets heavy, there is just nothing to compare with the seakeeping and all round wow factor. A classic in every sense of the word.

Middle of the road.

Blaze: Since leaving Topper this boat has gone from strength to strength and is now a good, well sort (and very well supported) boat, Worthy of a look in anyones eyes.

Byte Sized;-

This will be the real surprise:

The Supernova. If I could loose about 25 kg, then without a doubt this is what I'd be sailing. Everything the Laser ought to be - but isn't!!

There... how is that for critical analysis

D
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Re: Pisces

Post by Rupert » Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:27 pm

The Supernova is too big to be Bytesized - it falls into the Blaze catagory, and in my opinion (as a Byte sized person) is too narrow and lacks the sail control needed for a small person to sail it. We have one at the club, and the owner loves it and makes it go very well, mind.
So, think again on the small, please! I've sailed most of them, and not one stands out for me, yet. The Tonic certainly fits, but really isn't that good a boat - the way the mast falls down taking the deck with it, or the way it's top comes away from the bottom are a couple of problems, as is the splat factor on windy gybes, with a boom too high to reach and an aft mainsheet meaning that the actual point of gybing is rather random...
Rupert

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Nessa
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Re: Pisces

Post by Nessa » Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:16 pm

I agree with Rupert about the Supernova - it's not a boat for lightweights. My byte size choice would have to be the Europe. Naturally I agree with all the good things said about the Contender.

There is a boat on ebay at the moment which the seller is describing as a rowing dinghy. I'm fairly sure it's a laser (and have messaged him to tell him) but apparently there is no maker's marque, so I'm not 100%

Image

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... TQ:GB:1123
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Nigel
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Re: Pisces

Post by Nigel » Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:48 pm

Hi all,

David, interesting choices. Wet & Windy will be delighted about the Blaze (if they read this). I do intend to try a Contender at some point but the bottom of the Avon is probably not the best sailing ground for them so I will have to wait. I really will need a big expanse of water to make the effort getting out on the wire worthwhile and pretty steady wind to let me stay there :) . To quote from Burrett "Helmsmen must be extremely fit & agile as well as having a great deal of sailing ability"......... :cry:

Rupert can you tie something halfway down the wishbones to give you a gybing strap to grab hold of?

Nessa's mystery boat is very interesting. It looks laserlike in the shape of its hull but the angle of the spars/oars whatever hint at a much bigger cockpit. I will ask the seller for an ovehead photo. The usual ebay tape measure seems to be in use :D

Nigel

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