Pisces

[davidh]

Nessa,

whilst not wanting to argue with a lady, I'm not 100% on seeing the one available picture that the boat is a Laser.

Why.... the transom looks very rounded to me, then there is that bow profile.

The trouble is, people crop and reduce photos which tends to alter the perspective - so it is not possible to be certain.

But - that front deckline looks 'iffy' too!

D
PS The word on the supernova is that Mark Gile unashamedly used the underwater profile of the 505 for the hull. All I know is that it is afast, sweet and 'sorted' boat to sail. I disagree that it fits in the mid range, though would accept that it is the biggest of the small boats

But what a boat.............

D

[Rupert]

The Supernova is bigger than both a Blaze and a Solution, and carries similar weight...
I think, though, that 4 catagories would work better, as the Solo and Laser don't really fit in the Bytesized caragory either, needing rather more weight to get the most out of them. If going purely by speed, then the Supernova is far nearer to the Blaze than to the Europe, which is one of the faster little boats.
Mind you, Y&Y, when testing the Wayfarer in the current issue, have put suggested alternatives as the (14') Enterprise (must be one I've not come across...) and Merlin Rocket. So David, you are not alone in lumping dis-similar boats into catagories!

[Nessa]

I don't think it's a laser either, on closer inspection. It certainly isn't a row boat!

A couple of years ago I did some private coaching with a chap on Wimbleball who had a supernova. He weighed about 10 and a half stone and did not seem to have the weight for the boat.

[davidh]

Rupert,

THe only way that a supernove is 'bigger' than the other boats is in length overall. The sail area is actually quite modest, below that of a solo and a whole wind force (or two even) less than the Blaze.

I've sailed both (Blaze and Supernova) boats quite hard and would have to say that there is a whole world of difference between them. One is a 'big small boat', the other is well on it's way to be a full on 'big boat' - as if you hike from the racks, your body weight is a far outboard, potentially more so, than trapezeing from the gunwale.

I've some of the test sails in the Halo (will try to upload a pic to show me in the ice at Burghfield) and if that takes off, then this would be right up there in the heavy metal league.

I'm still 100% sure that for an 'average sized' person - say, 75 -80kgs, sailing at a club on restricted water (that includes anything from Netley to Shearwater) - on handicap, that the Supanova would give the 'best' sail all round. You'll get better competition from a Laser or Solo, there are cheaper options too BUT..... the supernova has something just a bit different - and is a very 'pretty' boat too!

D

[davidh]

oh dear.... none of these boats we've been discussing are 'classics' and it could be said that the Blaze and supernova are actually 'smods'. I'll go and wash my mouth out with soapy water and will not transgress again!

D

[Nigel]

Hi all,

David, you should try my Megabyte as an alternative to the Supernova. Probably a bit better weight carrier for those more "muscular" among us.

Nigel

[davidh]

Nigel,

1000 lashes for you...at least I went and did my mea cupla (Mr Briggs, is that right for the latin?) about using this forum for discussions of non classic boats.
Any more and you'll get drummed out of the brownies!

BUT..as you mentioned it (and purely in reply you understand) -yep, the answer is in having a hull that carries weight. The danger here is that if you look at the submissions from the classes, tehy all say broadly the same thing... yet we all know from practical experience that weight in the boat is a dominant factor!

That was one of the redeeming factors with the Sandtex Scow - it carried weight well.

D

[Nigel]

Hi David,

I think "mea cupla" is latin for "Where's my tea?".

I could claim the Megabyte as a lost class (at least in this country).

BTW how did you know I was in the Brownies?

We should hold a sweepstake on how many other threads we should have started in this thread by now.

Getting back to the topic, do you have an opinion on the benefits of the boom rotating the mast via an "up & down" gooseneck"?

I am torn currently between keeping things as they are or improving them with stuff out of my box of bits (e.g laser gooseneck & laser boom).

Nigel

[Rupert]

The minisail had a rowlock as a gooseneck. I can't say I ever found it a problem except when it snapped, and I've had real ones do that! The Topper seems to cope pretty well, too. From your description, the Pisces has the same boom problem as the Minisail, and early Toppers. If a Minisail had come my way before the Tonic, I was going to put a beefier section on the boom to see haw it changed things. In pipedreams involving being rich, it would have been carbon!

[Nigel]

Hi Rupert,

Yes. The boom is virtually identical to a minisail boom that I rescued - same diameter tube, same length (I think it must be a very early one as instead of a rowlock it just has a semicircular curved piece.

the reason I posed the question was that I had read somewhere about rotating masts and how they improved sail shape. With the rowlock thingy, my guess would be that the mast does not rotate at all currently. The boat I am not allowed to mention that begins with M has a laser like gooseneck and the mast rotates. I added a disc of 2mm PTFE under it and I think it sails better because the mast rotates more freely. The trouble is that this is all based on subjective impressions.

I could achieve a performance increase by losing a couple of stone but fiddling with the boats is far more interesting .

Nigel

[davidh]

Nigel,

as always sir you are right! Rotating masts do aid sail efficiency BUT - not when the spar section is circular. If you look at the photo I added of me sailing in the Blaze you might be able to see that the mast section is very 'cat like' - in other words, a semi wing section. This has to be allowed, helped even, to 'over rotate - this is where the draft if added in to the sail chord. If you go to the podcast I interview Mike Lyons who talks about the Halo - and in some detail about how rigs like this work. Big Al (Williams) - if you think the top of the main looks familiar then yes, it is - North used the profile of the top 1/3rd of a Tornado main and then just scaled it to suit!

As for the gooseneck Nigel, it doesn't matter a damn as long as it is strong enough and does not move from it's position vis a vis the mast heel. THere is an arguement for making the boom and mast 'as one' - as per the early OKs (and the Mark dinghy too) - the gooseneck was just a tenon joint that slotted into a mortice cut into the mast (which rotated) - Finns did the same thing I just hope I have my mortice and tenons the right way around, it can be very painful otherwise)

D

[Michael Brigg]

Hi David,

Mea Cupla???

I have been developing a theory that David's keyboard is developing a "common code." Must be something to do with your podcast about the Bloody Mary. On my system it keeps on freezing just after the bit about arctic weather and freezing fog.

David wrote:

"BTW..... when I'd doing the interviews...etc"

Mea Cupla honey and lemon and a nice soft kleenex for your node?

[Nigel]

Thanks David,

I will get out my old physics books and have a listen.

I think my concerns were twofold. Firstly the luff tube could be said to create an aerofoil section even around a tubular spar and secondly, where the sail is connected to that spar in relation to airflow will vary if the mast rotates. I am assuming that having it connected nearer the front will improve airflow and hence "lift".

Not sure if this makes sense - it is much easier to draw what I mean than describe it. Perhaps something for us to do at Whitefriars over lunch. Do they have any whiteboards ?

I also have an idea about rotating jibs .

Nigel

[davidh]

Michael,

mea maxima culpa (not a little bit of dyslexia there, just good old fashioned finger trouble)..... I ought to say that after each and every race!!

Be careful though Michael, very very careful, the word is that the talk on 'Five ringed Fireflys' will be happening at Hamble in the next month or so - on a Friday evening. Do you want me to let you know the date? If so, can you raid your cupboard (like most quacks do from time to time) for something for the nerves...a little Bolivian marching powder maybe!!!!!!!!

Now that really would get you lumped in with Nigel and drummed out of the brownies, not for the Misuse of Drugs Act 1969 but for 'Abuse of a Forum Topic 2008'.

How is work progressing on the Firefly, is it ready to go AND - have you started on Blue Moon?

Shout if you want to shlep over the Hamble River on Friday evening!

D

[Garry R]

Remember that the early Merlins all had rotating masts and before PTFE (mouth rinsed thoroughly) the answer was to pop a coin of the realm (farthing) under the mast in the hollow. On Secret Water I am pleased to say that I found the best use of a 5 cent coin that I can think of and of course more than its value as a bearing it is worth more in sterling than it did last year. Another problem is that as the ball and socket joint on these older mast feet got worn it takes very little rake for the flat of the foot to foul the bottom plate so you are effectively shimming the foot up with the coin. A little WD40 helps too but clean it out regularly to prevent grit lodging there and grinding it further.

Before I adapted the kicker position to shackle on the foot of the mast via a small brass arm if the mast didn't rotate you could be sailing along wondering why the damn thing was going so slowly. Look up, see the problem and a gentle push on the gooseneck end of the boom and the aerofoil section would pop into place and the boat would take off. Last year with the new arrangement I dont think that I had a single tack where the mast got stuck and it made a real difference as it was one thing less to go wrong so you could concentrate on making sure that the top batten flipped!! Now that is another way to slow a boat!!

As David H says a round section mast rotating would have no effect on aerofoil section so long as the sleeved sail slides around the mast on the tack.