Identification - USA boat

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Ed
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Identification - USA boat

Post by Ed » Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:02 pm

Received by email:

Hello,

I am in the United States and I have recently purchased a vintage wooden sailboat.
I need help with it's identification and thought you might be able to help with my research.

Please see my post on the Wooden Boat BB here;

http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?t=115813

Any help you might offer with identification would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Andy


Any thoughts?

eib
Ed Bremner
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LASERTOURIST
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Re: Identification - USA boat

Post by LASERTOURIST » Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:55 pm

I cant see why a caneton could ever have landed in the US...but the length is almost correct while the beam seems on foot too much...except for the Caneton 57 by Cornu which is almost spot on (both on length and beam) though in 57 the crazy tiller (seen on many french and german designs like Sharpies) was almost obsolete by 1957 enven if seen in a aluminium version on the early Sternes (of dutch origin but buit under licence in Cannes , France)

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caneton_%28bateau%29

http://asproca.synthasite.com/

But Caneton was a one design class at first (caneton Victor Brix , before it went restricted
( Herbulot Stampfli, Hervé and so many others) and then endorsed the 505 (shortened coronet by J Westell) and then the Cornu one design Design (caneton 56) and finally the Italian santarelli Caneton strale ...and quite a lot of non standard restricted canetons were made in france , specially during WW2 .

The US boat has obviously been extensively modified (the mast hog seems to be from a dutch river barge , not a racer)

The caneton was rather widespread in it's heyday ....so it is not absolutely impossible that one or two may have "crossed the pond"...

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Re: Identification - USA boat

Post by LASERTOURIST » Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:16 pm

Well after rebrowsing the caneton site , it appears that the restricted canetons had a maximum lengh of 5M 05 (some were shorter) and 1M 40 was a minimum beam but the could be made wider (and much were in fact much wider at deck level
for improved hiking ....)

Michael Brigg
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Re: Identification - USA boat

Post by Michael Brigg » Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:09 am

This was listed in my 1948 Yachtsmans Annual.
Olympic monotype Sharpie a.jpg
(22.8 KiB) Downloaded 558 times
I think its pretty much a match, just a few inches longer, but perhaps that is a discrepancy of the measuring points being used. The heavy lay up of the american boat looks to be in keeping with the age of this design, though this seems to be a single sailed boat.

The Quadrant shaped plate is very suggestive however, as is the shape of the rudder and vertical transom (compared with the raked back transom on a snipe.
Michael Brigg

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Re: Identification - USA boat

Post by Rupert » Sat Jun 26, 2010 8:28 am

Isn't that the OJolle? Finn like?
Rupert

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Re: Identification - USA boat

Post by Ancient Geek » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:07 am

The Olympic monotype - at least in my picture of Peter Scott winning his 1936 Bronze Olympic medal is round bilged, going back to when God was young I recall a couple of University Team Races in Chesapeak and Buzzards Bays in the US of A in similar Cat (Una.) Rigged Boats the wide flatish bottoms ring bells I cannot find any reference to class in my diaries nor oddly any pictures but such and similar boats were/are popular on the East Coast of that country.
Simples.

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Re: Identification - USA boat

Post by Rupert » Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:57 pm

Yes, I'm not sure why the name Sharpie would be appended to the 1936 Olympic boat.

As for the other one, as you say AG, there were dozens of varients of this sort of boat all around the Eastern seaboard. Odd that no one on Wooden Boat has an answer.
Rupert

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Re: Identification - USA boat

Post by LASERTOURIST » Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:53 pm

Maybe it's a Caneton after all....the dimensions match rather well with the 1938 / 1956 restricted caneton..... and US focused guys on Wooden boat can't envision the idea

( even if the 470 by cornu, kind of modernized Canetron 57 crossed the pond and was l
manufactured by Harken / Vanguard) Fu ...ng froggiers or something lile that :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: Identification - USA boat

Post by JimC » Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:35 pm

Caneton? I dunno guys. To these eyes it has very typical American lines...

~*AJ*~
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Re: Identification - USA boat

Post by ~*AJ*~ » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:57 am

Hello All!

First, I wish to thank Ed for posting my inquiry on this Forum!

This is my first major wooden boat restoration. My partner
and I took the 9' s/v JESTER to our coastal wooden boat festival
in 2008 and had a BLAST! JESTER was found on line, through
a random post on the Wooden Boat BB. She was in good shape, only needing
rigging and some attention to her mast and sprit. Images and information
about her are in my s/v JESTER Flickr set.
We met some wonderful people at the festival and made many new friends.

Since that time, I have been looking for a good project boat and recently this
'Mystery Vessel' found me!

I am rather enjoying the discussion on both this board and the
Wooden Boat board. I hope we can identify her ... or at least
come close -- I will gladly supply any additional images
should they be needed.

Clean-up continues. Every day she seems to dry out more and more.
Prior to my ownership, she had been stored open to the weather for
3+ years. Cracks have developed between the planks and large
areas of paint are popping off, exposing bare wood. I am not a wood
expert, however, the planks now appear to be teak and not mahogany
as previously thought.

I am uncovering hundreds of vintage, square cut nails - especially
in the deck areas. Some of the nails are completely intact, others
are rusted down to the diameter of a sewing pin.

Image

This is a view of the top of the first after deck beam at the back of the cockpit.

Seeing the lack of specific identification on the Wooden Boat BB, I am leaning
towards the Coneton as a possible pedigree connection ... I'll just have to
wait and see what 'new' information surfaces through these BB threads.

~*AJ*~

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Re: Identification - USA boat

Post by Rupert » Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:46 am

Welcome to the CVRDA, AJ - as you can see, your boat has got us both interested and confused!
Rupert

roger
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Re: Identification - USA boat

Post by roger » Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:52 am

Welcome to the CVRDA AJ. Maybe when you have restored her you can sail her over so we can have a closer inspection. :D

I will buy you a warm beer :lol:
Hornet 191 Shoestring,
Hornet 595 Demon awaiting restoration
Hornet 610 Final Fling
Hornet 353

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Re: Identification - USA boat

Post by Graham T » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:37 pm

The deck looks very different but the hull does remind me of Foreland one designs that used to be sailed at Broadstairs. I was told that the Foreland was an adaptation of an American design possibly called called a Curlew.
Graham T
Osprey 1340, Osprey 1245, Osprey 55, Miracle 1358, Laser heap, ancient Mirror kit half assembled, Project Miracle in need of decks........
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Re: Identification - USA boat

Post by LASERTOURIST » Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:38 am

Well ..Caneton has everty claim to look american...
The first Caneton (one design by Victor Brix) was dubbed the "french Snipe" Brix tried to make an affordable boat by copying and improving the US Snipe (he made it one foot longerto have a faster boat when sailing in archimedean mode and with somewhat racier lines and less hull rocker to get it somewhat faster on the plane).

Even the class emblem (the duckling) was a reference to the Snipe , though t also referred to a duck dish typical from Duclair (on the lower Seine , next to Rouen) where the first fleet of Canetons was created.

During the War the Caneton evolved from a one design to a restricted class because amateur building was encouraged and many amateur builders ended with someone a little different from the original cCaneton by Brix...it is a comlicated but interesting story..

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Re: Identification - USA boat

Post by Ancient Geek » Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:44 pm

It is not a miss measured (with a shrunk e-bay tape measure?) Lightening is it? Lots of other classes world wide are Lightenings in all but name, Lagos "Tarpons", Bombay - not sure what they call them but they've got about 20 of them! Ditto Hong Kong - Just a thought.
Simples.

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