Club 420 Date of Mfg.

[Delind]

new member- Just purchased used Club 420 dingy. It was Mfg. by Honnor Marine Ltd.- England. Hull plate says Class # 15218. I would like to know year of manufacture if anyone has that information.

It has aluminum Ian Proctor mast & boom. Strange self bailing plexeglass plate in stern that stops no water. Is it supposed to have rubber or cork gasket? There is none.

It has stainless device on starboard side of trunk which I figure is to drain boat, but it does not seem to function. I am thinking of eliminating both these devices and installing drain plug in stern.

I am most interested in year of Mfg., as hull plate does not say- so I can register it with State of Virginia.

Any info appreciated. Thanks.
Delind

[JimC]

It would have been an International 420 when built, probably 1970s. Goodness knows what's happened since on rigs and so on. I'd say if you estimate 1972 no-one's going to argue with you!

The "transom flap" won't have had any kind of sealing gasket. The theory is that it shouldn't ever be immersed while sailing, its just there to stop excessive water ingress launching and so on. It doesn't work quite like that in practice of course, but certainly you shouldn't see water lapping against it sailing normally. Its very useful if you need to get water out in bulk after a capsize, so most folk seal them with tape or something so that water doesn't generally drip in, and then push it open if its needed to be used.

The "self bailer", the stainless device will only work when the boat is travelling at a reasonable speed. Once you understand when you can put it down and expect it to work you'll find it very useful indeed to get rid of spray etc and keep your toes dry. They usually last pretty much indefinitely, but if it leaks when closed it may require a new gasket, which is a bit of a pain, but very doable.

[Delind]

Thanks for information Jim-

By condition of the hull, which seems good, I didn't think the boat was 40 years old. It must have been kept out of the sun which would have broken down the glass more in that time.

I sprayed the stainless bailer mechanism with some lube and will try to remove it to get a good look at it and see what makes it "tick". If I can get that working it seems like a good thing.

But the flapper of Plexiglas in the stern- not sure about keeping that; but I see your point about capsizing

[alan williams]

Hi
Honnor Marine stopped making 420 a very long time ago in the late 70's I think and started building Drascombes. A firend of mine and I had a 420 brought for us by are school and sailed it seriously for atime. Only juniors were allowed to use a trapeze then. The early 420's had two mast steps so that you could move the mast foreward get rid of the jid and sail singhle handed, there was also a special bend mast (finn like rig) which could be brought allowing the boat to become the 420 Solitaire. Boat was very flexible even when new with wooden spline, thwart,gunnels mast support which caused stresspoints. Boat would change shape with a 11.5 stone me tensioning the forestay, bow would lift and hull distort.
Cheers Al
Ps we had a dark green deck colours were very limited.

[solentgal]

If it has a wooden breakwater/combing on the fore-deck and no mast gate-bridge, then it is a very early one. Ours was like that, and also had a dark green deck....sail #4313, and we think it dated from the early 60s. We owned it in 1980, and it was certainly an old boat then. Ours was very solidly built and heavy with a good woven lay-up.....virtually bullet proof! I believe many were built as heavy duty traing boats to withstand all the inevitable knocks.
I was instructing at the time as well, but we had Rondar built boats at the school.....and they were fragile by comparison.

[Delind]

Thanks for the info-

I don't know proper terminology but boat has hardwood molding on gunwales stem to stern which I am treating with linseed oil. Configured for two positions for mast but no wood there just plastic (glass). There is wood keel fore and aft of centerboard well. Centerboard and rudder are wood. I want to paint deck different color, brilliant white is hard on eyes.

Mainsail seems to have been cut down or it is not original rigging. Hope to get it in water late summer, right now SE Virginia brutal heat and humidity ( today 97 degrees Fahrenheit).

[LASERTOURIST]

Looks like honnor Marine 420 were a close copy of early french Lanaverre 420's ( wood strakes and breakwater / coaming , even round window in the jib like the original cannes made Elvström sails ...)

Funny thing is that early pre 70 lanaverres were rather bullet proof (made entierely of fine woven roving glass fabric) while the later ones incorporated a good deal of projected matt and tended to break at the tanks seams ....

Anyhow the 420 was a carefully thought sailing school trainer meant as a btter Vaurien , incorporating GRP building as early as 1959 ...but it ghad never been intended to be a high strung beast for racing and the sailplan had been cut a some point in the development to tame the animal.

When success came in sophistication and boat breaking rig tension devices came in as well...and the boat had to be beefed up, pushing tjhe prioce sky high.

I recently bought an immaculate 2nd Hand Rondar for my sailing school in france ...and took it out in 35 Kts gusty Mistral and wild waves /chop...everything went out beautifully (the Rondar is quite well reinforced , contrary to the Nautivela )....until the rudder broke just under the rudder stock (It was the glassed over pine rudder , much stiffer than the original plywood thing)...I should have stuck to laser practice and steered with hull balance only...but anyway the 420 is a great boat in anything over 18 Kts

[LASERTOURIST]

The sail has not been re cut, anyway, only the long bom was intended for a very crude transom main layout (Topper style) so it extended to the transom.

Thi was later changed to centre main sheet system when traveller rails came into fashion

[JonAHupp]

Just 'acquired' an Honnor Marine Ltd. Club 420 which I'm trying to restore. The 'Class No' is 19012. Anybody have an idea of when this boat was built? Thanks.

[LASERTOURIST]

420 was mostly a french thing and only started expanding in the angosaxon countries in the early / mid 70's so french / Spanish /belgian /Italian numnbering should be coherent for that period....a19000 class numbr would mean early seventies ..1973 / 1974...maybe

[JonAHupp]

One more question about these old Honnor Marine LTD. Club 420s. What is the small clear plastic window cut into the port side of the stern for? Thanks.

[Max McCarthy]

I can't quite make out that area on the photo.

But I'd have thought it would be a transom flap to try drain water after capsize.

http://www.cautionwater.com/uploads/Rig ... arts04.jpg

Does it look a little like this?

[JimC]

yeah there was just a single transom flap on early 420s if my memory serves me OK. You can drain water after a capsize with them.

[LASERTOURIST]

the transparent flap was not watertight...it was used as a bailer when sailing fast (on the right tack, with the window leeward) .
Later the rules accepted a tube type or elvström type self bailer somewhere in the centreboard case area.
The idea behind the transparent flap was that it helped the crew to get correct fore and aft balance on this short "inflated" , 505 in only 4,20 M long, hull

Too far on the stern meant dragging water behind the transom(and get water seepling inside ) and too far on the bw in hard wind meant pitchpoling (specially with the old style 420's wthout closed bow tank....tjhe tansparent flap helped visualize the water flowafter the transom....

[jpa_wfsc]

The 420 has had some stupid rules - one was that there can only b one self bailer. Its quite like that class to specify only one transom flap also...