Vivette Firefly repairs

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Rupert
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Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Rupert » Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:03 pm

I run mine down the case with the cleat actually mounted on the back corner of the case - I find I'm less likely to use the ropes as toe straps then...
Saskia is in a barn a few miles away, but I'll take a pic when I go and fetch her in a month...

The other important thing on the movement of the mast is to have the 8mm movement fore and aft at deck level, as this multiplies up a lot at the mast tip.
As for rig tension, no need to have it any tighter than to stop the foot jumping out of the bracket!
Rupert

Garry R

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Garry R » Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:01 pm

I have one of the old (Mark 1 round section mast gates but of course because it is a fixed mast there is no tufnol collar. There looks as if there is tons of space all round the mast in every direction and evidence that the mast has rubbed against this - there is no mast sleeve/plastic collar either and so I am thinking of getting one of those and making a new slot for the mast to fit into at deck level to inhibit the movement to the maximum 8mm allowed.

Rupert
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Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Rupert » Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:29 pm

Don't forget to leave as little possible gap sideways.
If you are redecking, why not build a new mast gate to fit? It looks neater not to have the big bit of brass/chrome and means no screw holes to start rotting!
Rupert

Garry R

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Garry R » Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:45 pm

That's the way I was going to go. I have a nice piece of mahogany which will do the job nicely.

Garry R

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Garry R » Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:29 pm

I have popped in a new mast gate block at the weekend and on measuring, the potential sideways movement with the old gate was about 1cm each side (!!) with about 2cm fore and aft movement too. It must have really flopped about! The gate position is spot on - the 2500 maximum allowed so am now on course to get this sorted out. Has anyone any idea what thickness a mast collar adds to the mast side to side (the Proctor C section is 54mm)? Obviously only half the distace will be removed fore and aft as it doesnt cover the track!!

Managed to get the decks ply cut roughly to shape as it was nice enough to get the boat out of the garage and give myself a bit of room. I was a little disappointed in the ply I have to say. Compared to the last lot of Robbins Elite I got a couple of years ago there seem to be loads of little knots in the veneer. Hope it will be OK

Tidying up the inside should be finished tonight and on Wednesday I have to take the day off to have my gas meter inspected so hope to get the inside G4 on. No work this weekend coming, sadly, as I am down to my Mum's for the weekend. BUT what is the best thing to use as a tack cloth before varnishing - advice please!!

Rupert
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Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Rupert » Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:51 pm

I just use white spirit on kitchen towel. The bounty sort that donsn't mind being wet.
Surely the slop in the mast gate was taken up by the collar from a rotating mast?
You don't necessarily need a proctor stiffening collar at deck level - there isn't much pressure on the mast compared to most classes, so it is unlikely to break.
What do you mean by the Maximum 2500mm? Not got time to look at the rules, but when I did mine I made sure it was as far back in the boat as possible, not forwards.
Rupert

Garry R

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Garry R » Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:49 pm

Rules state minimum from aft of mast to aft side of transom 2470mm and a maximum of 2500mm with the mast as forwards in the slot as is possible. Therefore you are right Rupert I can take the gate 30mm back from the position of the cross member which at present is spot on 2500mm from the aft of the transom. But rake will also be affected by the position of the mast step so where should it be? Or are you allowed an adjustable mast step to make it easier to get the correct position/rake? ie mast step well aft = forward rake and vice versa.

Rupert
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Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Rupert » Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:36 pm

The Firefly seems to be better balanced with the rig as far back as allowed, but in reality it probebly doesn't make a huge amount of difference compared to rake, which is far greater now than it was in the days when the boats were built. You are allowed a normal rack and pins arrangement to alter the rake to suit your style of sailing and where you sail. If you set her level fore and aft, then step the mast so it is raking 1 or possibly 2 holes aft of vertical (ie forwards in the step) you will be near enough till you get more used to the boat.
Rupert

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Ed
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Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Ed » Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:01 pm

I find the best tack cloths to use......are.....urr......tack-cloths. They are not expensive to buy and seem to work much better than any home-made sticky cloth.

As for the Ply.......mmmmmm.......I am afraid it does not all-together surprise me.....

There is no doubt that all ply does vary.....and this is why, as I said before, I am afraid I tend to pull out a few sheets before I choose one. However, I have found that Robbins Elite tends to be better than most. I 'think' that it still has a 'good' face and a not-so-good face. so you do need to check which side is which. The problem with the Elite can be that it is hard to tell the difference. The super-elite is (or used to be) a slightly different colour which made telling them apart easier. Decking the Firefly is annoying as I reckon you can only get both sides to foredeck out of one sheet......if you turn the sheet over and do each side with each face of sheet of ply. When I decked mine (using Elite in fact) I think I had to buy another sheet to get a decent pattern on both sides and colour match between both sides.

However, it should come up to a certain standard. I don't think there should be any patches on the good side. Although a certain number of knots 'may' be acceptable as far as their 'rules' are concerned.

Elite is also funny in that it has a deffinite colour difference depending on the angle the grain is viewed at and of course you can't really see this until after it is varnished. I spent hours matching both sides of bow, but in end although it was a perfect match before varnish, it ended up being a perfect match between the starboard being veiwed from the bow and the port being viewed from the stern.

In the end, I think you have to do the best with what you have got.....and as soon as it is done and on the water, you won't notice so much.

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
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Garry R

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Garry R » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:58 am

Have put a couple of coats of G4 (actually called Damp Seal but it's the same stuff) onto Vivette last night - it was very cold but on the tin it says you can apply down to 0C so no problem. This morning it was cured OK with no bloom at all. Pretty pleased with the result but want to sand down and put one more coat before the Blakes Dura Gloss.
Attachments
IMG_0134small.jpg
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IMG_0132small.jpg
This shows the laminated repair to the hull.
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IMG_0129small.jpg
General picture of the inside of the hull.
(172.95 KiB) Downloaded 291 times

Rupert
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Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Rupert » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:14 pm

Looking good! I'm impressed with the progress!
Rupert

Garry R

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Garry R » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:58 pm

Yet another silly question!! Are you allowed to use something like Hammerite on the centreplate or even galvafroid zinc rich paint as a protection. The plate is rusty on the tip where the galvanising has gone through.

Rupert
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Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Rupert » Tue Feb 12, 2008 4:04 pm

I'd not realized you still had the steel plate. Yes, you can paint it (smooth not hammered finish!) but I'd find an aluminium plate asap, or go weight training!
Rupert

Michael Brigg
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Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Michael Brigg » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:06 pm

I will let the experts answer this first - Rupert and Michael.
I confess I am rather flattered by the title of "expert." :roll: All I've ever done is observe what is done by other boats and then imitated or tried to improve the best bits. There is of course no "best way" here but it is important not to overcomplicate a boat with bits of string which you either do not or cannot use effectively. My memory of Saskia when sailed by Peter Knight and winning the nationals more regularly than Bjorn won Wimbledon was that she was not atall different from all the other boats. Peter was intense and concentrated (like Bjorn) and never made mistakes.

I have no idea what to do with barber haulers :?: so I don't have them. (They are inccidentally in class for the firefly.)

My preference is for an uncluttered layout. I prefer to leave that behind in the shed/garage/spare bedroom.) I also get nervous about heavy duty tensioning devices held in by screws. :idea: Where possible I always use bolts let through the hull and epoxyed into place. The bolt head may be further strenthened by a washer and then concealed by a veneer plug or part of the boat trim (such as the keel band). This technique works well for anchor points for the aft end of the Toe straps, a fixing point for the control line pulleys (if you have them) on the hog just aft of the thwart and for toe strap attachment under the thwart.

The same principle applies to shroud plates.

If you don't use a particular control (such as a cunningham or jib tension) when you're out racing it,s best to just tie it of somewhere close to the mast or where the rope tail can be tidied away without risk of escape. Lose ropes have a habit of getting stuck in self bailers and have been known on occasion to attempt to wrestle control of the tiller (or more often tiller extention) from the unwary helm! Don't lead it back to the thwart unless you need to use it.

The purchase required is important to assess. If your a rugger playing hairyback ( :twisted: ) who used to row in his youth (like Ed) (ex Caldicott? + Teddies I think?) then your arrangment may differ from those of the ballerina. ( :oops: ) This will determine the size of string and blocks and also the load placed on different parts of the chain. A single purchace on the kicker will need alot of stength all down the line wheras a 16:1 arrangment need stong anchorage at its foot and at the boom but can use lightweight attatchments at the control end.

How much string is likely to be left over when the control line is at either extreme? The higher the purchase the more line you pull through. this may influence your design. Fireflies dont allow hydraulic systems but leavers are ok and much cheaper than harken blocks and need far less string. Multiple pulley systems tend to look neater (if well designed) but need increasing quantities of line, can be expensive if you like ball bearings and can get into horrible fangles when you're in a hurry getting on the water or rigging after a bad traffic day on your way to the meeting.

I like my control lines to be led down to a set of blocks attached to the mast foot fitting with the stongest possible bolt or shackle. From here you can reflect up to the side decking or along the keel or up to the middle (centrboard end) of the thwart. I prefer going under the thwart to the aft (helm's) side as then you can still get at the lines when your girfriend is resting after a hard upwind hike or sitting inboard while you pump the kicker over the swells on that knarly broad reaching plane.

:idea: A block of hardwood securely attached under the thwart makes a good anchorage for any cleating/jammers and leaves the thwart uncluttered for the crew to slide across/sit on without damaging her drysuit.

:!: Watch out that control lines in the bottom of the boat and coming up from the hog to the thwart are not going to foul the self bailers! Make sure also that you can reach the bailers easily without encountering an effective set of bars formed where the control lines (now tight) reflect up to the thwart from the hog attachments. It is a good idea to mock up your arrangement before doing anything permanent. Now that biler position is optional you can choose the chicken or the egg first although I see from your pictures that the bailers are already in. :evil:

Finally have a look at this link to see what can be done to even the humble mirror! (who said the Mirror14 was a dead class??)
http://www.sailracer.co.uk/galleryviewe ... mgs&copyr=
Last edited by Michael Brigg on Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Michael Brigg

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Trevor C
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Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Trevor C » Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:10 pm

Which link?
Uffa Fox Jolly Boat - J9
Mirror - 34359
Hornet - K140


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