Vivette Firefly repairs

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Garry R

Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Garry R » Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:30 am

Here is Vivette with the large hole filled (from the inside now) and half the decking removed. Got on well at the weekend inspired by England's performance at Twickenham. Greta stuff for the BBC's "Team of the Year 2007" winners only a short 6 weeks ago. Oh how have the mighty ........... Of course a great British tradition rewarding the nearly men.
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Here is the hole all cleaned up and ready for the first of the three layers of veneer.
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Decks off
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Hole filled with veneer - thanks Rupert.
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Pat
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Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Pat » Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:28 pm

The rest of the Vivette pictures can now be viewed on the gallery - under Boats, Classes, Firefly. Thanks for sorting the problems Neil.

Rupert
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Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Rupert » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:53 pm

Glad to be of help, Garry. Looking at the pictures of the deck, she looks to be a completely in class Mk3, so no worries there.
Rupert

Garry R

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Garry R » Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:09 am

As promised by Robbins in an advance phone call my timber arrived yeserday on time. Two sheets of Elite ply packed with cardboard all round the outside and this then wrapped in a huge sheet of plastic. There were corner protectors too. The mahogany for the keel was separate and is a nice piece. It's great to have such service and although it cost a bit (I am in Aberdeen after all) it's fine to have the real McCoy. Thoroughly recommended.

Garry R

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Garry R » Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:13 am

Something I have always wondered!! Do you varnish the inside of the boat before you start the deck replacement or do you get everything sorted and then go for it!! Everything is so accessable when the decks are off. I'm just reaching that point where I will be finished with the scratching and scraping. Obviously I would have to put paper down to stop dripping epoxy getting on the varnish while I do the decks. What's the strategy generally?

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Ed
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Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Ed » Tue Feb 05, 2008 12:25 pm

I would certainly do it while the decks are off.

I might then lay on a final coat after I have finished.

But yes covering the inside would seem like a good idea before starting work on the decks.

What is a more interesting question maybe....is do you varnish the underside of decks before you lay them down?

I can't remember what I did with Goonfly....but think I would veer towards a quick coat of woodseal or even thin epoxy on underside first.

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

Garry R

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Garry R » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:03 pm

On Gannet I did the inside with the decks off and once dry and re-decked I did the decks all but one coat and let it harden. I then turned her over and hoisted her up on slings so that I had room to crawl around underneath and then I used G4 on the undersides of the exposed deck areas Strating at the bow and working backwards to the stern. That way there was no running varnish/sealer down your hands/arms and more importantly down the inside of the hull with the usual nasty runs that we all try to avoid. A couple of coats were applied to the new wood - possibly 3 (lost in the mist of time and the halo of inhaled solvent!!) I then did the outside of the hull completely, let it dry hard and then flipped her over and popped on the last coat of varnish inside. Thanks for the input Ed - at least I am heading the right direction.

Garry R

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Garry R » Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:23 pm

Once again planning ahead. The mainsail halyard on Vivette is rope only but on the side of the mast there is a toothed rack which looks as it is for the main halyard. Do you hitch the soft eye over this to the correct point before pulling down the gooseneck and engaging it on the boom.

A similar arrangement exists for the jib (ie rope halyard) but was wondering whether the Firefly has a Highfireld lever or the like for jib tensioning and needs a wire halyard. I know that the Mk 1 would have a toothed rack to pull the jib taut with (I assume) the halyard running up the forestay, back down round a block at the base of the forestay and the jib hanked to the halyard as per the early Merlin then along the foredeck to a cleat and the halyard then stretched laterally out to the toothed rack. What is the best arrangement or is a large amount of tension not required.

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Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Ed » Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:32 pm

There have been many many arrangements for halyards on the Firefly. Not surprising really after 3 masts have been in class.

I started to write an answer....and then thought better of it.

I will let the experts answer this first - Rupert and Michael.

and if there is anything I can add .....I will

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

Rupert
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Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Rupert » Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:28 pm

OK...If your mast is fixed...
Take the jib halyard out of the sheeve at the bottom of the mast. Make sure the wire loop (long soft eye) comes out of the mast. Fix the loop to a hook, which in turn runs a cascade of ropes down the side of the plate case to give you a 4-1 purchase on tensioning the jib. Upwind, you let the tension off it a little and pull the forestay tighter on the kicking strap. Downwind you get the rig to go forwards by slacking the kicker and tensioning the forestay. On a small lake, I generally don't worry too much about it all, and just set the tension to a good average, but on open water it really makes a difference.

On a rotating mast, the forestay goes round the floating block on a wire strop on the mast, then back down through the hole in the foredeck at the bows, round a little turning block, then is cleated off at the back of the foredeck. Originally, boats had a wire rack under the deck you hooked the wire round to tension it. Others had a block and tackle under the deck leading to a cleat to pull the wire sideways.

The main halyard should be wire for a rack. If rope, change the rack for a cleat.
Rupert

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Ed
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Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Ed » Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:03 pm

I couldn't of said that nearly so well or concisely.

that is exactly what I have too.

I often feel such a dunce when talking about boat-tuning and really must talk more to you rupert about tuning and sail-setting with the Firefly....I wonder if there are any differences caused by my largely sailing single-handed. I entirely hear what you are saying....but just need to try it out a bit I guess. I can never see that applying kicker is going to provide much jib luff tension. I guess it does a bit, due to the mast being held as a fulcrum at the mast gate, but it does not seem very effective. Surely mainsheet tension is going to provide much more luff tension. Of course the kicker does change the main shape so dramatically and when it is full on you can quite destroy any flow due to the amount of hook you can put on.

Sailing single-handed (as you know) it quickly becomes necessary to spill wind on the main in quite medium strength winds. I have always tried to put a little more tension on the jib halyard to keep jib-luff tight when loosing the direct down pull of mainsheet in those conditions. But I have been scared of putting too much kicker on due to getting too much hook in main.

I know you will say well 'try it' but do you think I should try and sail with less jib halyard and more kicker, when slightly overpowered (which is much of the time on open water).....?

I am certainly interested by the idea that mast rake would make so much difference.

I know that really this needs to be covered in a on-the-water training session followed by a few bears.....and who knows....maybe we could do that some time

must dash.....Torchwood has started

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

Rupert
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Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Rupert » Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:53 am

Ed, when sailing 2 up on small water, we barely touch anything all the way round, unless it is howling, when the kicker has to come off as we reach the windward mark to save a nasty accident... When singlehanded, though, the kicker is used far more in order to depower upwind. I'll have the kicker on tight enough that when I spill wind the boom doesn't sky too much, adding power when you don't want it. I very rarely use cunningham when 2 handed, but with increased kicker tension on my own, I'll use it to open up the leech again and depower the top of the sail.
The kicker is surprisingly effective at tensioning the jib, so long as your shrouds are loose enough to allow it. But first, look at the amount of rake you have with no jib up, as this make a big difference to how she will behave. I like loads, as on Whitefriars I'll take a hit down wind for the pointing ability upwind, and for some reason mast rake allows better pointing.
Rupert

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Ed
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Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Ed » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:24 am

thanks Rupert,

I think that pretty much agrees with what I do....so it is good to hear that I am on the right track.

I reckon I have quite a bit of rake.....I don't have any empirical measurements, but before adding extra 3in to mast height it was quite possible to pull down mainsheet block-to-block. Of course I can't now.....but it feels about the same. I raked it a bit further back whilst sailing at Baltic Wharf. Now sailing at Saltash I am not so sure it is right. Problem is Saltash can give a very wide range of sailing conditions. In the last few races of last year we got long runs against tide, which took for ever and were quite crippling in terms of my race position. I could keep up well on the beats, but those long runs I just did not have the speed. Of course much of this was to do with sailing a slow boat in a handicap fleet, but still I felt that I was not getting the best out of the Firefly.

I do suspect that I often sail with rig generally too taught....but again have wondered if this was a by-product of sailing single-handed. I know it should be on the floppy side....but how do I tell 'how floppy'? Again it seems to me that as I get powered up (everything pretty floppy when drifting) I need to put a bit of rig-tension on just to keep all the rig a bit more stable. Does this make sense?

Most of my settings and how I sail the Firefly have really been very much established simply by suck'n'see. I am not too slow, so I can't be too far out, but always curious about how it 'should' be set up.

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

Garry R

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Garry R » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:33 am

Any chance of a photo of the jib tension set up you describe Ruopert/Ed?

It will be easier to fit all this as I go along I guess.

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Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Ed » Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:44 am

It really is so simple that it would take 5 mins of rigging time before you go on the water. I certainly wouldn't do anything until you have finished all other boat renovation.

With mine it is simply a two part cascade pulled by a 4:1 block, that has a hook at one end that grabs the long-eye on bottom of halyard. the other end is cleated/tied to the cleat that is used to hold the tail. All this is under thwart at the very aft end, so adjustment rope stands proud of end of thwart. It is so simple, does not get in the way, leaves no screw holes anywhere wet. It is a brilliant system.

I use the same on my Jollyboat....but with that I have been worried that the forces incured by Jollyboat rig will pull the thwart out. So far it has only mangled the mast foot.

I will see what I can do about photos. I don't think photos will make much sense unless I rig the mast....and I don't think I am planning on doing that till easterish, maybe later (start of Saltash racing).

Can do drawings if you would like??

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it

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