Vivette Firefly repairs

share hints, tips and experiences
Rupert
Posts: 6255
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:40 pm
Location: Cotswold Water Park

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Rupert »

I put the fairlead at about 45 degrees, and the cleat facing the crewing position (When singlehanded upwind you sit roughly where the crew does normally) on a block so that there is just a tiny downward force to cleat it, but it doesn't cleat if you don't want it to. Roughly in a line from fairlead, cleat, deck.
Rupert
Garry R

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Garry R »

Cheers - think I have now got the jist!! Will make up a couple of small mounting blocks for the cleats!!
Michael Brigg
Posts: 1663
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:11 pm
Location: Gosport, UK

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Michael Brigg »

If your going to fit inboard fairleads most punters have these on an adjustable track. If you have tanks that can be awkward to fit if you want to bolt the track because access to the bolt head is tricky unless you pre plan the positioning of inspection hatches. (I have previously noted that these must be big enough to get your arm well inside.) If you have seats and side bags you must make sure the screw ends/bolt heads are properly covered underneath or they will rip the bags to shreds!

The track is at right angles to the direction of pull from the jib and often is the only thing holding you in the boat when hiking hard which is why I favour bolts over screws.

I've positioned my track just forward and flush with the thwart. It's perhaps a little far forward but this is compensated for by using pulleys blocks (ratchet). I think it's less cluttered although I need to work out where to put the cleats.

If your track is going to be on the thwart you can get a fairlead with an adjustable angled cleat attatched to point either to the helm or crew.

The alternative to a fairlead track is to use barber haulers. I know I said I don't know how to use them but that was for poetic licence before posting a picture of that spaghetti mirror.
Michael Brigg
User avatar
Ed
Site Admin
Posts: 3486
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:11 pm
Location: Plymouth
Contact:

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Ed »

From your description, I have pretty much got what you describe you currently have. A turning-block on the thwart and a cleat on windward deck. I like this and it works for me. I believe it is common for single-handed sailing.

You do have to clamber over the jib-sheet a bit as it lies across the boat and my cleats are of course exactly where you want to sit. On the other hand you can make fine adjustments to the jib-sheet tension with your leg and foot, which I do quite a bit.

The only problem I have is when you are sitting in the boat, you can't of course use the windward cleat, as you are sitting right where the sheet is. In this case you have to sheet back above to the cleat on the leeward deck. This is fine on a Mk1....it may or may not work on a Mk2 or Mk3. It does seem to work best with a block I think rather than a simple eye. This isn't really a problem as such....but I do notice that the sheeting angle is slightly more open when sheeted to the leeward cleat. Of course this wouldn't happen with an eye. I can't really say whether it is better or worse as the difference is quite subtle.

Hope that helps

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
Rupert
Posts: 6255
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:40 pm
Location: Cotswold Water Park

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Rupert »

Barberhaulers aren't legal in a Firefly...
Rupert
Garry R

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Garry R »

Some pictures of Vivette in current garb. You can see the position of the turning block and the fairlead on the thwart as per the old arrangement the sheet then leading to the windward deck. Should the new arrangement be something like the last picture but with a block of timber angled below the jamming cleat and of course no cleat on the side deck at all.
Attachments
New.jpg
This is the possible new arrangement
(95.13 KiB) Downloaded 394 times
Old arrangement.jpg
This was the old arrangement with the cleat on the windward deck - not shown)
(87.99 KiB) Downloaded 392 times
Vivette varnish.jpg
Vivette varnished and starting to be fitted out.
(96.88 KiB) Downloaded 387 times
Michael Brigg
Posts: 1663
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:11 pm
Location: Gosport, UK

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Michael Brigg »

Is this a "don't want to drill holes in my new varnish" syndrome? I know I suffer terribly with this. All that hard work beautifying and you want to make it perfect first time!

If that is the case you need to knock the old lady around a bit. Give her a few dinks of your own as endearing features, a few scrapes on the beach while you get to have a look at what other people have done and then get busy with the screwdriver.

In the meantime I would use the old holes to minimise cosmetic damage and compromise for a while with her old set up until you get to know her a bit more intimately.

My immediate impression of both setups you have illustrated is that (1) may be liable to release itself as the angle from cleat to pulley block is pulling the sheet upwards and out of the jaws. (2) will chafe your sheets terribly at the entry into the pulley unless this is angled upwards towards the clew. It will also be a devil to get into the cleat as there is no room to "push" the sheet down into the jaws. The thwart and plate box will be in the way especially if its blowing. It needs to be able to stay in the cleat even when you are hanging out on it.

Finally I really do reccomend an adjustable track so that you can alter the inboard sheeting angle according to which suit of sails you have and the prevailing wind strength.
Michael Brigg
User avatar
Ed
Site Admin
Posts: 3486
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:11 pm
Location: Plymouth
Contact:

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Ed »

Agree with everything Michael says and might add:

I don't think that the 'old' system could of been used for long as I know from experience that having a block there quickly damages the wood all around it as it flails around and is sat upon and there does not appear to be any damage on vivette. I have used a 4in x 4in plate of tuphnol to protect the thwart.

My block is even further inboard than yours. I can't remember exactly where, but remember it is with Mk1 decks and it is still inside enough to allow the sheet to not fowl the inwhale.

I must admit, I really like the idea of having it on a track as Michael suggests and may well consider doing this on mine, although it only really needs to move over a distance of 3-4 in at most.

I like your 'possible new' arrangement with one proviso. You will need to block up the cleat high enough for the sheet to be able to be both put in and taken out from holding the sheet when sitting out to windward. If you have to come into the boat to do it.....you just won't be able to do it (when single-handed anyway). That is fine.....although you might find it a bit of a pain to sit on....as much as it certainly is on the windward deck.

Which is best? Not sure, I have only done it with windward cleats (incidentally, I use the same basic system on the Jollyboat as well) which is a system which works well for me.

hope helps.

If I remember, I will take a photo of mine this w/end.

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
Michael Brigg
Posts: 1663
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:11 pm
Location: Gosport, UK

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Michael Brigg »

It's a bit of a change in subject, but looking at the proud photo of Vivette in fitting out glory I note you have just one rather small Bag at the back.

This may not comply with the rules which require not less than 100kg fixed "abaft of the centreboard case." Single bags are allowed but there aren't many of these about these days. They used to be held in position by 3-4 wooden battens (+ strapping) tucked in under the mark1 decks. It had a very dated feel to it. It looked like a sofa and was notoriously difficult to keep in the boat if ever you did fall in.

It is much smarter to have shaped canvas or cloth covers fixed under the decks behind the bouyancy tanks and laced down to a floor reinforcment batten on either side of the stern hog. 50kg bags are required for each side.
Michael Brigg
Rupert
Posts: 6255
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:40 pm
Location: Cotswold Water Park

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Rupert »

If using fairleads, they need to be bigger than those one, I think. Looking good, though!
Rupert
Garry R

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Garry R »

http://www.sailboats.co.uk/ProductInfo. ... tid=HA6180

Wondered if this would do to convert a T terminal mast/shroud to a shackle arrangement rather than get a whole new set of rigging. The new mast has a T-terminal arrangement while the old one has tangs and shackle to a hard eye and wondered if I fitted this the conversion would be OK - the lengths look perfect and I have shroud adjusters at the other end.
Michael Brigg
Posts: 1663
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:11 pm
Location: Gosport, UK

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Michael Brigg »

Assuming you need 2 of these (I presume the forestay is attached to an eye on the front) at £9.15 (+VAT?) thats @£20. If the mast is a brand new one from Seldens I'm surprised if you cant get the rigging bundled in to the whole package for nothing or certainly for only a few pounds extra and definately for not much more than £20, so it might be more economical in the long run to go for the "pennyworth of tar" If it's 2nd hand then hasn't it got rigging already?
Michael Brigg
Garry R

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Garry R »

It was a mast from Glasgow University and they wanted all the standing rigging off it!! It had a slight bend which I have managed to sort out. Archimedes was a wondeful man with his lever principles!! Hope he is as good with his displacement theories!!
Rupert
Posts: 6255
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:40 pm
Location: Cotswold Water Park

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Rupert »

I guess it would work, Garry, but have you priced up new rigging? Old wire is always a worry...
Rupert
Garry R

Re: Vivette Firefly repairs

Post by Garry R »

New rigging/spreaders etc ordered and the alloy centreplate installed without cutting the groove - actually a prety easy job to install a centreplate compared to the board on Gannet. Hopefully she will be ready to rig at the weekend and roll on 6th April for maiden voyage when it will be blowing a gale with sleet showers and the target date would have been set back a week or two!!
Post Reply