Getting a decent paint finish?

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Rich
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Getting a decent paint finish?

Post by Rich » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:30 pm

The restoration of Phantom 499 is inching forward and the hull is now ready for the topcoat having already had 2 coats of primer, 2 coats of undercoat and then flatted with 600 wet & dry.

I would like to try to get a reasonable finish to the topcoat but would appreciate any advice from those in the know. I am using 'International 10yr Gloss' and my thoughts were to apply 3 coats using the roller & jenny brush technique, then leave the paint to harden before flattening with 2000 grade wet & dry followed by a T-cut and polish. However I'm unsure whether to apply the 3 topcoats on consequetive days or apply 2 coats and then leave it for 2 weeks (hoping the paint had hardened enough) and then flatten again with 600 wet & dry before applying the final coat. Any thoughts?

Also any recommendations regarding cutting compound & polish. Is a car polish such as Autoglym OK, or is the expensive boat stuff actualy any better?

Cheers
Rich

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neil
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Re: Getting a decent paint finish?

Post by neil » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:55 pm

It's a question of where you want to stop and how good do you really want the finish - bearing in mind that at some point it's going to get scratched.

I tend not to plan the number of coats and use the roller and jenny brush technique and put a couple of coats on within the overcoating time to allow the chemical bond to take place. I'll try and put a third coat on in the overcoating time if I'm happy with the finish of the base coats. If I'm not then I'll leave it for a few days and flatten back before putting on another coat.

The key (no pun intended) is the preparation, if the primer, undercoat and base layers are fine I find the final coats don't need cutting.

The Raudaschl Finn had a decent finish and got bumped on its second outing (that's reminded me to touch it up before Baltic Wharf). That's a dark green, which looks great but is a pain as the green shows every imperfection.

I have used cutting compound on a number of boats and tend to use the Farecla range starting with a G3 and moving to a G10. Buy it from a body shop supplier off ebay not from a chandler
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Ancient Geek
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Re: Getting a decent paint finish?

Post by Ancient Geek » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:02 am

You have to fair the finish with 1200 wet and dry (Using a long block to aboid loal cutting in.)before using faracla and finally Bluebell Metal Polish.
Simples.

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Re: Getting a decent paint finish?

Post by Rupert » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:36 am

On the finish, I tend to use 1200 grit in my hand rather than on a block, and this time I polished using Northampton sailboats cutting polish stuff, as it was what I had lying around. On the bottom of the hull I'm not that interested in a shiny finish, just a very smooth one. Above the waterline, I'd be happy with a matt finish too, but Kathryn wants gloss, as it does look prettier!
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Ed
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Re: Getting a decent paint finish?

Post by Ed » Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:44 am

The harder varnishes (two pack) are obviously much easier to polish than the softer traditional varnishes.

Not that you 'can't' polish the trad varnishes, but you do have to wait a bit longer, like 3-4 weeks and go a bit more carefully.

As has been said....preparation is the most important bit.

You don't need much skill if you use the 'roll'n'tip' method of application.

cheers

eib
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Re: Getting a decent paint finish?

Post by ACB » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:06 pm

If you use conventional paints, I have one word for you:

OWATROL

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Ed
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Re: Getting a decent paint finish?

Post by Ed » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:19 pm

Well.....lets just hope they don't change the recipe without any warning and replace a good product with a completely useless and damaging one like they did with Netrol.

eib
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Michael Brigg
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Re: Getting a decent paint finish?

Post by Michael Brigg » Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:28 pm

The most important thing about the finish is that it is flat. If its paint this can be acheived reasonably easily by using plenty of primer and undercoat to "fill in"" small dips in the surface, and the very small undulations that will show up when you apply a gloss topcoat. These same small undulations I am told are also responsible for setting up small swirls and eddies in the laminar flow of water over the surface and these will be the principle slowing factors that determine the difference between a fast and a slow finish. Small scratches dont look so good but have little influence on speed (except in your head.)

So use a biggish Flat sanding block (or foot if youve got a machine) and if its a machine keep it moving so as not to get any "Flat" spots on the curve of the hull. :x Consider if painting using slightly different shades of paint so that you can easily see where you've gone through a full thickness of paint (in which case its time for another coat.

Once you are confident youve built up the base enough to fill in all the dips in the surface it's time to apply your top coats. Warm the paint and apply it as thinly as possible with a light but even, medium grade rub between coats to ensure adhesion.

The final cut needs a compound appropriate to the surface. Car compounds may be designed for surfaces that have been oven baked and may embed themselves in a softer surface, so take care and use a test area first. (You never know how hard your finish is until you try it, as there are too many variables between different garages, (or sitting room/ dining rooms if the boss is away!) :roll:

A Glass like finish on Varnish needs the same care but is more difficult because the base build up doesnt have the same facility to use a "softer" primer/undercoat to build up the base, but the eradication of dips and avoidance of "flat spots" is almost more important. You can within limits attack the bare wood but you can only smooth down so much if its ply, as rubbind through to the layer below is a hanging offence. :oops: :cry: Solid wooden boats are perhaps more forgiving with their looks being generally of an older generation.
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Rich
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Re: Getting a decent paint finish?

Post by Rich » Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:50 pm

I think a 'fast' finish is out of the question, not that this is too important as the boat is likely to be spending most of it's time at the back of the fleet with me on the helm. The hull has flat spots & dips a plenty despite many hours spent filling and sanding, fairing a hull would appear to be a dark art which I have been unable to master. My primary objective therefore is to end up with a finish that looks OK rather than something perfectly smooth with good laminar flow. Varnished areas will have to remain as applied, lifes to short to polish every surface and I'd actualy quite like to get sailing some day.

Anyway thanks for all tips, I'll now try and put some of it into practice.

Cheers
Rich
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Re: Getting a decent paint finish?

Post by RichardB2 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:14 pm

Preparation, preparation and more preparation!

This finish is done by a very talented man called Steve Jevons who works with laurie Smart. The varnishing and painting is done by hand using a brush and brush only and a bloody good quality one at that!! :wink:

http://www.merlinrocket.co.uk/gallery/v ... yd_bow.jpg

roger
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Re: Getting a decent paint finish?

Post by roger » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:19 pm

and a very dust free environment i guess.

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Graham T
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Re: Getting a decent paint finish?

Post by Graham T » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:37 pm

Done with a cheap and nasty B&Q brush by the side of the road.......



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roger
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Re: Getting a decent paint finish?

Post by roger » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:57 pm

Fantastic Do you want to do Shoestring next time :D
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Rich
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Re: Getting a decent paint finish?

Post by Rich » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:50 am

Suddenly beginning to feel very inadequate :(
Rich

Garry R

Re: Getting a decent paint finish?

Post by Garry R » Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:28 am

I must live on the wrong road!

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