Another Enterprise!

share hints, tips and experiences
Mark R
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:40 pm

Another Enterprise!

Post by Mark R »

This is my first post on the forum, hello to all.

I'm in the process of restoring Enterprise 904 (February 1958), and wondered if I might ask for guidance on the use of G4 - I've tried finding an answer on previous threads but to no avail.

I started with the boat in October last year, and reached the point where I'm about to paint the hull. After 4 weeks of stripping 2K product from the interior and hull, I've taken a decision to go single pack for paint and varnish.

So far, I've used Blakes Woodseal for the deck, with Duragloss Varnish on top. For the hull I was going to use Woodseal to seal the ply prior to primer/undercoat, but the local chandlers recommend G4 instead (which is less than 1/2 the price so I'm up for giving it a go).

The instructions for G4 state that the product is to be overcoated when finger tacky. This leaves me with a couple of questions:

1. The hull has been faired with thickened epoxy (pre the single pack decision!), and so has patches of bare wood and epoxy filler. Does this pose a problem with overcoating with G4 ? Is the bare wood likely to be finger tacky before the filler ?
2. The workshop is heated to 15C - broadly how long does it take for G4 to get finger tacky ? I can make up some test pieces but thought I'd ask.

All help gratefully received.

Mark.
roger
Posts: 3031
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:08 pm
Location: Frome Somerset UK

Re: Another Enterprise!

Post by roger »

Hello Mark and welcome to the cvrda. My only experience with G4 was on bare wood and I easily put on three coats a day and topped with ordinary one coat varnish. Just be careful in areas where it may pool as it bubbles and goes white. I have found it a far easier primer to use than UCP which I find makes me feel a bit wheezy.

Good luck and looking ofrward to some pics
Hornet 191 Shoestring,
Hornet 595 Demon awaiting restoration
Hornet 610 Final Fling
Hornet 353
User avatar
Ancient Geek
Posts: 1133
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:50 am
Location: Sletten,3250, Denmark and Hampshire GU33 7LR UK

Re: Another Enterprise!

Post by Ancient Geek »

Garry is your man on this one,what he does not know about G4 is not knowledge.
Simples.
User avatar
Ed
Site Admin
Posts: 3486
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:11 pm
Location: Plymouth
Contact:

Re: Another Enterprise!

Post by Ed »

The bits of epoxy filler won't make a big difference I suspect.

I don't think the timing is really critical....I normally wait until it just feels dry, just not quite tacky. But just don't leave it overnight to really harden.

How long it takes is going to depend on temp, ventilation, how thinned etc. My guess is that it will be tacky and over-coatable in a 2-3 hours, but don't leave it longer than 12. I think the amount of thinners you use does make a bit of a difference. Do try and make sure you get a can of G4 which is not very old as it does tend to thicken a bit.

You can thin it, but reckon it is best to use their diluent. How thin depends on how you like to apply. I tend to roll'n'tip with about 5-10% thinners. Working outside, I have found it a challenge to get all the coats on that I want to before the dusk dampness gets onto the top coat.

cheers

eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA


Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
Mark R
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:40 pm

Re: Another Enterprise!

Post by Mark R »

Many thanks for the replies and guidance, very much appreciated. Its a beautiful day on the south coast, the family are away for the day, so I'm off to seal the hull and first coat of primer.

Roger, photos are difficult at the moment, the boat is on stands in the workshop - I'll post photos once the hull is painted and the boat righted. My wife will be pleased to see others take an interest in the restoration, she has had enough of being dragged to workshop to appreciate the progress of work!
Garry R

Re: Another Enterprise!

Post by Garry R »

I am a firm believer in G4. The Enterprise I have just done was done with G4 and I do sometimes wonder about the need for overcoating with a UV protection although I do it as a perceived wisdom. I know this may seem like heresy but really how much UV do the decks get maybe 3-8 hours per week and how often is it sunny?!! The rest of the time it sits under a cover. Something else I have considered is that G4 is sold as a pond sealer for concrete. It doesn't seem to have anything else put on the top of it and yet UV can penetrate water very well (you can get badly sunburnt snorkelling I believe but then swimming voluntarily ain't my thing!!) I have had G4 on Gannet inside the hull and ribs now for 4 years with no overcoat of varnish and so far it has not flaked or seen any serious decline in the finish. The decks have Blakes DuraGloss over the G4 as I do like the finish. For the G4 I do enough coats until the wood turns glossy then think about the Blakes. I let it dry well before keying back for the Blakes. I think it does a great job in almost any temperature (important in Aberdeen) but Ed is absolutely right on a couple of points. Where it pools at all it goes milky so make sure this doesn't happen and this can be tricky in areas like the join between centreboard casing and hull as G4 is really pretty runny stuff. The trick too is to get a tin that is new. I get it at 5L and decant and wrap the bottles in tinfoil to keep the light out 1L at a time. Fill the bottles right to the top to exclude air/damp. I wouldn't use it on a mast as I do feel that it is hard and possibly brittle but that's just a gut feeling. There I use Goldspar (clue is the name on the tin!) or Blakes favourite) which I think has a bit of give in it.


Finally I did find that even with the decks that seemed to be lifting on the top veneer on the Enterprise the application of G4 has made a huge difference to them and I haven't had to redeck. I have slipped in bits of veneer where there was no hope along some of the edges and that has tidied up the area but so far I am impressed with the G4 treatment. Hope this all helps even though it seems a bit of a ramble!!
Garry R

Re: Another Enterprise!

Post by Garry R »

Can we get some photos of your wife admiring the restoration - in our experience these are rarer photos than those of the work itself!!!!
Pat
Posts: 2555
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 1:42 pm
Location: West Wiltshire (Wessex)

Re: Another Enterprise!

Post by Pat »

Half Cut's deck had a quick couple of coats of G4 without any extra UV sealer put on two years ago "just to keep it going" until a redeck as the ply was going. It still seems fine and probably won't get done this year either and the G4 seems to be bonding the ply together better than it was before.
davidh
Posts: 3166
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:43 am
Location: Ventor Isle of Wight

Re: Another Enterprise!

Post by davidh »

Mark,

if you're on the sunny south coast where exactly are you? There is a little cluster of 'classic-ites' on Southampton Water, so if you're nearby shout and we can always hook up!

However, if you are central south coast then you'll know that today it's damn cold again. It was nice enough earler to make one think about an early yot...but now.... brrrrrrrr...

D
David H
Mark R
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:40 pm

Re: Another Enterprise!

Post by Mark R »

I'm in Emsworth, and so race in Chichester harbour most weekends in the summer. My boys are six and three, hence the Enterprise as a family boat to introduce them to sailing - both are adamant that the ISO (close to a 'lost class' I fear) is a better proposition despite being given naming rights to the Ent.

A outing to Southampton sounds like a good summer plan, but I'm going to need to source a road trailer first. Many thanks for the invite, most thoughtful.

G4 on and starting to go tacky, I'm off out to get a second coat on. The sunny weather this morning has now turned to cold drizzle, ideal for workshop bimbling but not a great deal else.

Wife not overly keen on the photo idea and has threatened to stop a regular feed of tea to the work area!
Mark R
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:40 pm

Re: Another Enterprise!

Post by Mark R »

Thanks to Garry for his notes on the use of G4 - exactly what I required, much appreaciated.
davidh
Posts: 3166
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:43 am
Location: Ventor Isle of Wight

Re: Another Enterprise!

Post by davidh »

Mark,

I was in Emsworth on Tuesday and will be back again next week - are you at home during the day?

D
David H
Mark R
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:40 pm

Re: Another Enterprise!

Post by Mark R »

I've been at home this week, but usually work away during the week - that said, if you do happen to be passing by drop me a PM and if I'm about we'll have tea. It would also be useful to have a second pair of hands for self bailer installation (only joking!).
Mark R
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 1:40 pm

Re: Another Enterprise!

Post by Mark R »

Well after 2 coats of sealer, 5 coats of primer/undercoat, and lots of wet sanding I'm approaching the application of topcoat - in this case Blakes Brilliant Enamel, which I plan to apply with a trusted brush.

Speaking to the guys in the chandlers, they recommend applying the paint without thinning - with all painting I've done in the past thinning has been essential to getting flow post application, and so achieving a nice glossy finish.

Does anyone have experience of Blakes BE, and if so, would you recommend thinning?

All guidance gratefully received, Mark.
Graham T
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:45 pm
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
Contact:

Re: Another Enterprise!

Post by Graham T »

I quite like Blakes as it seems to cover better than its main competitor - I have never thinned it but I do try and save painting jobs for warm weather. If I do have to varnish or paint when its colder then thinning can help to get things flowing but I would try without to start.
Graham T
Osprey 1340, Osprey 1245, Osprey 55, Miracle 1358, Laser heap, ancient Mirror kit half assembled, Project Miracle in need of decks........
Kielder Water Sailing Club
Post Reply