kicker take off point
kicker take off point
Having got the Simoun close to water ready, I now find that that is no obvious take off point for the kicker; there is no strop on the mast, and nothing that indicates it comes off the mast step (I don't like doing that anyway.) So chaps, without blinding me with science, is there an optimum place for siting the take off on the mast?
I am not planning on anything spectacularly powerful as a kicker, just a step up from the v jammer that came with it! Probably something like the 'race' kicker you can get for a topper, at least until I find out what's needed.
I am not planning on anything spectacularly powerful as a kicker, just a step up from the v jammer that came with it! Probably something like the 'race' kicker you can get for a topper, at least until I find out what's needed.
The Peril
Agamemnon
Lovely little Cadet
OK 1954
Xena Warrior Princess
Finn 469
Laser 2
Wayfarer World
Agamemnon
Lovely little Cadet
OK 1954
Xena Warrior Princess
Finn 469
Laser 2
Wayfarer World
Re: kicker take off point
as low as possible.
just using a rigging bolt or rigging U bolt straight through the mast
eib
just using a rigging bolt or rigging U bolt straight through the mast
eib
Ed Bremner
CVRDA
Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
CVRDA
Jollyboat J3
Firefly F2942
IC GBR314 ex S51 - 1970 Slurp
MR 638 - Please come and take it away
Phelps Scull
Bathurst Whiff - looking for someone to love it
- Ancient Geek
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Re: kicker take off point
Hate to take issue or try to improve on Ed's advice but if it is a metal mast and you do through bolt it, do be carefull you do not distort the tube, better a wrap round thingy Holt or is it Allen do an angled one specifically for this job, rivets rather than self tappers unless you do not have a rivet gun, as to where as far down the mast as you can and the same along the boom giving a 45 degree equilateral triangle, unless that constricts room in the boat in which case as far aft as you reasonably can!
Simples.
Re: kicker take off point
Deck stepped or hog?
in My merlin 507 which is deck stepped I have a loop on the foot of the mast but I also have a bolt through the king post much lower down.
Using the higher one on the mast will draw the boom into the mast much more and is more successful in adding bend to the mast.
using the lower fitting on the king post has a different effect. It will pull the boom downwards more but it doesn't bend the mast so much at all. But what it will do is to pull the whole rig backwards if you don't start withh maximum rig tension. Many modern merlins have a one string system for mast rake. This is a no string system. So in lighter winds I like to use the lower fitting and not too much rig tension. The kicker and the transom mainsheet will add rig tension up wind and add rake, downwind that all gets eased when the kicker is eased. But in stronger winds I prefer the top kicker attachment as you can control mast bend much better.
I have also considered that if the king post attachment were to be set slightly forward from the line of the gooseneck pivot the kicker would then automaticall slacken as the boom moves further away from the centre line of the boat - but I haven't pursued that idea yet.
in My merlin 507 which is deck stepped I have a loop on the foot of the mast but I also have a bolt through the king post much lower down.
Using the higher one on the mast will draw the boom into the mast much more and is more successful in adding bend to the mast.
using the lower fitting on the king post has a different effect. It will pull the boom downwards more but it doesn't bend the mast so much at all. But what it will do is to pull the whole rig backwards if you don't start withh maximum rig tension. Many modern merlins have a one string system for mast rake. This is a no string system. So in lighter winds I like to use the lower fitting and not too much rig tension. The kicker and the transom mainsheet will add rig tension up wind and add rake, downwind that all gets eased when the kicker is eased. But in stronger winds I prefer the top kicker attachment as you can control mast bend much better.
I have also considered that if the king post attachment were to be set slightly forward from the line of the gooseneck pivot the kicker would then automaticall slacken as the boom moves further away from the centre line of the boat - but I haven't pursued that idea yet.
Re: kicker take off point
Chris, interesting thought. That makes sense and could be something, modern boats have been missing...(never occured to me before!)
Will think on it!!
Jon
Will think on it!!
Jon
Re: kicker take off point
I'm with Ed on this one. It is how Selden put their masts together now, and you never need to worry about rivets going bang. Should be possible to manage without crushing the mast, as it doesn't actually have to be too tight to work.
Rupert
- jpa_wfsc
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Re: kicker take off point
Another and very modern (and very very old) way is the loop strop around the boom, as often used on skiffs (also, on many race preped toppers). Also can be used on the mast for a kicker take of (but would be novel). The modern fabric straps are very strong. They need a peg (e.g. screww with pile of washers under the head) to run up to and stop them sliding.
The old way is a rolling hitch - which will not slide along the mast / boom, if the tension is always begger than zero.i
http://www.tollesburysc.co.uk/Knots/Rolling_hitch.htm
The old way is a rolling hitch - which will not slide along the mast / boom, if the tension is always begger than zero.i
http://www.tollesburysc.co.uk/Knots/Rolling_hitch.htm
j./
National 12 "Spider" 2523
Finn K468 'Captain Scarlet'
British Moth, 630, early 60's 'Pisces'
!!!! Not CVRDA !!!!
Comet Trio - something always ready to sail.
National 12 "Spider" 2523
Finn K468 'Captain Scarlet'
British Moth, 630, early 60's 'Pisces'
!!!! Not CVRDA !!!!
Comet Trio - something always ready to sail.
Re: kicker take off point
Jon that's why I like to keep the old boats as they were because there is much more subtlety than at first meets the eye and I like to learn that. It's easy to throw baby out with the bath water in the quest for development.
So tell David H not to worry about his sails!
Now why am I giving all my secrets away?
So tell David H not to worry about his sails!
Now why am I giving all my secrets away?
Re: kicker take off point
Right that's it, has anyone got a set of cotten sails for a Smokers, and a wooden mast please!!
Only jesting, I actually think that the sails and mast on 3025 may very well have been original, and that is what frightens me, when I recall how lovely your cotten set looks, and how horrid our Dacron set looked!!
Jon
Only jesting, I actually think that the sails and mast on 3025 may very well have been original, and that is what frightens me, when I recall how lovely your cotten set looks, and how horrid our Dacron set looked!!
Jon
Re: kicker take off point
Only had the 445 ten years can't remember where its fixed. I'm down at Bewl this weekend shall add it to my photo list for you
Spearhead
Simoun 445
Spearhead
Simoun 445
Re: kicker take off point
Only had the 445 ten years can't remember where its fixed. I'm down at Bewl this weekend shall add it to my photo list for you
Spearhead
Simoun 445
Spearhead
Simoun 445
Re: kicker take off point
I had it all planned and bought the bits, then found I'd forgotten about the jib tensioner which is on a track at the front of the mst at the base...might need some jiggery pokery here. Pics would be great Bernard.
The Peril
Agamemnon
Lovely little Cadet
OK 1954
Xena Warrior Princess
Finn 469
Laser 2
Wayfarer World
Agamemnon
Lovely little Cadet
OK 1954
Xena Warrior Princess
Finn 469
Laser 2
Wayfarer World
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- Location: France
Re: kicker take off point
Hello!
On the 445 original mast (STRUCTURAL / as it was called and it was Gouterons proprietary extrusion tool /) the lower mast cap (cast alloy ) had of course a slot for the mast step axle, but also a thick protruding beak (angled 45° upwards) with a hole to secure thevang shackle)
remember that most haliards were external (contrary to 420 which had a hollow wooden mast at the start and then an aly one with inner halyards) and that the 445 mast was not tapered (budget boat for sailing centres) so the bottom cap incorporated no halyard sheaves like proctor masts and then could accomodate the vang fixing point
Your mast isn't original (good thing because STRUCTURAL used a high zinc content alloy , prone to corrosion) so i suggest you use a long stainless steel U bolted all the way through he mast , along with a compression plate on the forward side and a 3 mm thick rubber bit between mast and compression plate (cut one or two bits in a car inner tube)
On the 445 original mast (STRUCTURAL / as it was called and it was Gouterons proprietary extrusion tool /) the lower mast cap (cast alloy ) had of course a slot for the mast step axle, but also a thick protruding beak (angled 45° upwards) with a hole to secure thevang shackle)
remember that most haliards were external (contrary to 420 which had a hollow wooden mast at the start and then an aly one with inner halyards) and that the 445 mast was not tapered (budget boat for sailing centres) so the bottom cap incorporated no halyard sheaves like proctor masts and then could accomodate the vang fixing point
Your mast isn't original (good thing because STRUCTURAL used a high zinc content alloy , prone to corrosion) so i suggest you use a long stainless steel U bolted all the way through he mast , along with a compression plate on the forward side and a 3 mm thick rubber bit between mast and compression plate (cut one or two bits in a car inner tube)