to screw or not to screw

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Mungo
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to screw or not to screw

Post by Mungo » Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:09 am

My jollyboat has about 450 screws in the deck. When replacing the deck is there any reason to screw a deck on if it is glued with epoxy?

I actually like how the screws look, but I will likely have to fill 450 screw holes before reusing screws.

Any opinions on the structural value of screws, suggestions for filling screw holes? volunteers...

regretfully as temps drop it is now the end of gluing season here

thanks

billytwiglet
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Re: to screw or not to screw

Post by billytwiglet » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:06 am

Decks held in place by screws (ribbed merlins for example) don't require adhesive. Later boats, glued construction, have glued decks. Screws are useful when you stick your elbow through the decking ply because you can take the deck off and repair it. Adhesive decks are much stiffer but not always authentic. There for many is the decision to be made; stay origional or go modern! Parallel to the wood/alu/carbon argument.
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Rupert
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Re: to screw or not to screw

Post by Rupert » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:44 am

Fairey decks were glued and screwed, because the glues of the time weren't up to it. From a structural point of view, and from a future places to rot one, too, screws are not neccessary with epoxy. From an athestic point of view, it is the eye of the beholder! Personally, I'd not use them, as I'd be thinking "they weren't needed" the whole time, but I think your priorities are rather different to mine!
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neil
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Re: to screw or not to screw

Post by neil » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:09 am

This a quandary I'm facing with Zenith. The decks that were on there (not the original, but probably replaced in the 1950s) had screws every 1.5", and there were 100s of them. The decks will get replaced next year and I'm not going to use screws. The main reason for not using them is that each screw head is an opportunity for water to get under the varnish.
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Re: to screw or not to screw

Post by kfz » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:27 am

neil wrote:This a quandary I'm facing with Zenith. The decks that were on there (not the original, but probably replaced in the 1950s) had screws every 1.5", and there were 100s of them. The decks will get replaced next year and I'm not going to use screws. The main reason for not using them is that each screw head is an opportunity for water to get under the varnish.

Presumably to be authentic they would need to be SiBr too, £££

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Ed
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Re: to screw or not to screw

Post by Ed » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:53 am

Well, I have been down this road...

it has all been said though.

You don't need them, but they do look original.

I have them on my Jollyboat even after the re-decking. Unlike Neil, I would certainly put them on Zenith, but on a Jollyboat, if I did it again....most probably not.

So.... in my mind, a 'vintage' boat looks best with them and a 'classic' boat sails best without them.

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Re: to screw or not to screw

Post by JimC » Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:36 pm

Ed wrote:You don't need them, but they do look original.
Suddenly I have in my mind mylar cosmetic "screw heads" that you press onto the first coat of varnish to give the vintage effect... Or maybe transfers... Wait for the first coat of varnish to dry, apply the transfers, then continue as usual... Or for the real traditionalist screw heads without screws. Just go along with a countersink, glue the screwheads in and varnish.

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Re: to screw or not to screw

Post by Mungo » Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:03 pm

Thanks all. I will have to contemplate my priorities

What about the screw holes? should they be filled? I would think any void is a potential for future problems.

Does anyone know what the wood used for gunwales and longitudinal beams is on a jollyboat. It sure looks like sitka spruce (fine grain pale, very fibrous). The cross beams look like mahogany, but the longitudinal ones are very light and soft. Same wood makes up the gunwales.

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Ed
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Re: to screw or not to screw

Post by Ed » Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:44 pm

Jim - first I fell about laughing.....then I kinda thought....no indeed why not!

I like the idea of just dropping in screw-heads, would really work for me.

Mungo -
Does anyone know what the wood used for gunwales and longitudinal beams is on a jollyboat. It sure looks like sitka spruce (fine grain pale, very fibrous). The cross beams look like mahogany, but the longitudinal ones are very light and soft. Same wood makes up the gunwales.
No easy answer to this...Well there is an there isn't...

I can tell you what wood Fairey Marine used for their own Jollyboats, but not what wood was used by other boatbuilders.

Originally, Fairey finished off the majority of the Jollyboats themselves, but after a while their high cost made it easier for prospective buyers to purchase just the shell and then get a local boat-builder to finish it off with their own interiors and decks. In the end, very few shells were finished by Fairey and they were pretty much all fitted out by other boat-builders.

I don't know how many Fairey finished boats went to North America, but rather suspect that most were finished locally on exported shells.

Having looked at your Jollyboat images, I don't think it is a Fairey finished boat and therefore the wood used would of been down to what was available locally to the boatbuilder.

On a Fairey boat, there is a mixture of mahogany and a softer wood, (Spruce or a light Pine). The gunwhales are mahogany, but the hog is the spruce. The main transverse beams are mainly the light wood, as are the inner edges to the tanks/inner decks.

I thought the plans specified which wood was used, but I can't find anything at moment.

I will try and find photos if you want.

Long and the short of it is.....don't worry too much, your boat looks georgeous and go with whatever you can find that works and looks right, the original boat-builder would of done the same thing.

cheers

eib
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Re: to screw or not to screw

Post by JimC » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:30 pm

Mungo wrote:What about the screw holes? should they be filled? I would think any void is a potential for future problems.
I'd fill them simply to have more glue area, but if you're using filled epoxy they'll tend to fill up anyway.

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