Kestrel Help

share hints, tips and experiences
Post Reply
JohnB
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:48 pm

Kestrel Help

Post by JohnB »

Hello Sailors
Just got an elderly Kestrel mk1 dinghy needing tlc and a few missing bits;
suffering from long disuse and neglect. I've scoured the web but been unable to find the info I need to get her back together -nb, it's an 'economy project'

So if anyone can advise, I'd be very grateful. I'm anxious that the work I do does not take the boat out of class. If I could find any rules. The Kestrel Owners site is very short on detail.

The boat's name is 'Blue'. The no. on the sail is 909, but I think they're 2nd
hand; there's no hull number I can see. Built by Gmach. There is a steel
centreplate. There appears never to have been provision for a spi.

So I need to know:

How does the mainsheet run? none with the boat. There is a track with 2 sliding eyes under the boom, a U bolt near the aft end of the c/b case, and an eye near each corner of the transom.

Where can I get a gooseneck?

How do you get the steel c/plate out and check the pivot pin? The c/p
pivot fixings are not visible.

What is the correct position of the jib fairleads? - there are combined fairlead/cleats on the deck edge about 2ft aft of the shrouds - and several filled holes in the sidedecks.

Length of Whisker pole?

The boat has 2 large jibs, about 16ft luff x 14ft leech x 7ft foot. I've heard mention of a smaller jib but can't find any info.

Is there any advice on rig setup/mast rake etc? Is there a deck plan - even for the current model?

The rudder blade is about 30 deg from vertical when down. Is this correct?

I shall be sailing singlehanded most of the time and not racing. I ain't as young as I was and I don't do hiking any more. So any suggestions will be very welcome. I need to decide:
1 sail as is [when sorted]
2 possibly smaller sails, definitely slab reefing,
3 possibly ballast - enough to recover from a knockdown

Any suggestions would be gratefully received. Is there any one familiar with the early Kestrels I could discuss the boat with?

Regards
John Button
Poole Dorset
tel 01202 692096
Nessa
Posts: 2290
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:16 pm
Location: East Angular

Re: Kestrel Help

Post by Nessa »

Getting the centreboard out should mean undoing the main bolt and hauling like mad with the boat on its side. It can be done with the boat upright, but that involves lots of lifting and sweating. If there is no bolt visible then we need photos to see what means are holding it in.

The set up you describe sounds about right for the jib sheeting. The original jib/genoa is pretty huge so the leads need to be set quite a long way back. If you're using the genoa lead the sheet outside the shroud.

The early boats were set up for aft sheeting, but many have been converted to centre sheeting. You need to choose which you prefer and go for that. Do you tack facing backwards ie aft sheeting, r forwards, ie centre main. Is there still a traveller track along the transom? That could be the deciding factor. There are lots of photos on the Kestrel facebook group - I know this because i put lots there. Many are of modern boats, but there are some oldies.

In terms of single handing, start by getting a cut down jib - there is no set pattern for this, either use one of your own sails or get a cheapy jib from here or on ebay. For windier days then also use a cut down mainsail or get a sail maker to put reefing points into your exisitng main. I had a cut down jib plus a cut down main as well as the standard size sails and chopped and changed according to conditions.

Ballast won't help - the steel centreplate is pretty hefty in itself. What you need is a big mast head float to slow down inversion. Go for the big crewsaver 60 litre job, nothing else really makes enough difference. Otherwise look for a permanent mast head like catamarans have.

I am not an expert, but I am sure the boat should have a spinnaker chute opening. this and the invisibility of the centreboard bolt makes me want to ask if you're really sure it's a kestrela nd not a wildfire, another gmach boat. Sorry if that seems insulting, but what you're describing is a tad unusual.

see here: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3311

Because the kestrel is meant to have a spinnaker there are no measurements given for a whisker pole, though it shouldn't be hard to work it out.

I may well have the gooseneck from my old proctor mast, keep nagging me and I will wrench it out of my collection and put it in the post. I can also get hold of sail measurements etc - I gave both my boats to a friend quite recently so can still get hold of everything.

The kestrel is a great boat. I gave mine up because I have too many boats, never a regular crew and nowhere to go cruising. Keep the questions coming, I am not an expert but I do try to be helpful!
The Peril
Agamemnon
Lovely little Cadet
OK 1954
Xena Warrior Princess
Finn 469
Laser 2
Wayfarer World
User avatar
JB9
Posts: 416
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:52 am
Location: BBSC, Kent, UK

Re: Kestrel Help

Post by JB9 »

It does not sound like a Wildfire as they do not have a centreplate/board.
Harrier 25
505 7163
JohnB
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:48 pm

Re: Kestrel Help

Post by JohnB »

Hi Nessa
Many thanks for your help. I've seen a similar vintage Kestrel belonging to the local sea Scouts, which has answered some of the questions.
"[quote="Nessa"]Getting the centreboard out should mean undoing the main bolt and hauling like mad with the boat on its side. It can be done with the boat upright, but that involves lots of lifting and sweating. If there is no bolt visible then we need photos to see what means are holding it in.
As far as I can see the ends of the bolt - or pin? - have been glassed over - at least I know where it is now, so it will be gentle deconstruction...

"The set up you describe sounds about right for the jib sheeting. The original jib/genoa is pretty huge so the leads need to be set quite a long way back. If you're using the genoa lead the sheet outside the shroud.
Sounds right for my boat..

"The early boats were set up for aft sheeting, but many have been converted to centre sheeting.
This one is centre sheeting - I've just seen a photo of a similar Kestrel setup on fleabay. Appears to use a rope horse to the p/s tanks, with a block/becket on the horse, 2 blocks under the boom and 1, probably with a jammer, tied to a U bolt on the c/b case. No boom end fittings or evidence of them. But there is a rope horse on the transom [might just be used as a handle], and eyes on the aft corners, no traveller. So who Knows?

" You need to choose which you prefer and go for that. Do you tack facing backwards ie aft sheeting, r forwards, ie centre main.
Forwards - it depends. I;m a small cruiser sailor, so tend not to move when I tack - unless its blowing. I prefer to helm from the lee side - guess I've got to unlearn all that.

"There are lots of photos on the Kestrel facebook group
How do you access them? This old Luddite don't do social networking sites...

"In terms of single handing, start by getting a cut down jib - there is no set pattern for this, either use one of your own sails or get a cheapy jib from here or on ebay. For windier days then also use a cut down mainsail or get a sail maker to put reefing points into your exisitng main. I had a cut down jib plus a cut down main as well as the standard size sails and chopped and changed according to conditions.
I guess I need to source a smaller jib and put reefs in the main for singlehanding. Any idea what size jib was used, and where it sheeted? It would be nice to rig one with a boom - for ease of poling out. Where to put the reefs in the main?

"Ballast won't help - the steel centreplate is pretty hefty in itself. What you need is a big mast head float to slow down inversion. Go for the big crewsaver 60 litre job, nothing else really makes enough difference. Otherwise look for a permanent mast head like catamarans have.
I was looking at adding enough ballast to recover from a knockdown to 90degrees. A bulb on the base of the c/p would be ideal but that's major engineering. A float will obviously help, but 60l is a big thing. I'm looking at not capsizing. Or at least something that self rights from 90deg.. It's about 50 years since I capsized an Enterprize and broke the tiller. Cold [March], wet, no safety boat, sailing clothes = anorak, stuck on a mudbank...etc.. I don't intend to repeat the experience. I hadnt realised you differentiated between a capsize [=knockdown to me] and inversion. Most of Poole is too shallow to invert in, just deep enough to get the mast stuck in the mire. And lonely. So a capsize is best avoided. Besides , you drown the outboard and spill the beer.

"I am not an expert, but I am sure the boat should have a spinnaker chute opening. this and the invisibility of the centreboard bolt makes me want to ask if you're really sure it's a Kestrel
Definitely a Kestrel - I understand chutes came in later. No spi crane, uphaul fittings, etc on the mast, but the holes may have been filled. It's covered in thick paint so it's hard to tell. It looks nonstandard under the foredeck as well, there is a vertical full height bulkhead with a 12" diam. hatch just in front of the mast and a very small shelf. Real pain.

"I may well have the gooseneck from my old proctor mast, keep nagging me and I will wrench it out of my collection and put it in the post. I can also get hold of sail measurements etc - I gave both my boats to a friend quite recently so can still get hold of everything.

Yes Please to the gooseneck - I;d be really grateful - the proctor ones that fit a 14/15mm slot are long discontinued and it is not an easy thing to make with my metalwork facilities. Please post it to
John Button
16 Meadow Rise
Broadstone
Dorset BH189ED

And the sail measurements would be very helpful,, especially the small jib please.

"nowhere to go cruising.
If you are ever near Poole contact me for a trip round the bay...in the other boat [20ft]


Cheers and thanks for the advice and the offer of a goooseneck

regards
John
solentgal
Posts: 466
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:01 pm
Location: twixt Chichester & Pompey

Re: Kestrel Help

Post by solentgal »

I haven't read thru all the above properly, but my first thought was that the centre-plate may be the type that just has a slot instead of a hole......I have seen this arrangement before, but can't remember if it was on a Kestrel (we used to have 2 at the sailing school where I worked). If so, then the plate just lifts off the pivot point, the slot being angled aft and down from the pivot point I think, and the plate is removed in the up position by lifting it forward and up whilst moving it slightly to the lowered position.....if that makes sense? I can picture it, but its one of those things that is difficult to recall without doing it. You will probably be able to tell by just moving it around a little.......better than de-glassing the bolt to start with!
Sami.
phil58490
Posts: 203
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:23 pm
Location: Kellow, Looe, Cornwall

Re: Kestrel Help

Post by phil58490 »

Where are you measuring the 14-15mm, I have a Holt gooseneck going to waste in the garage but think it might be too small. If Nessa doesn't come up with one and mine could be made to fit I will happily post it down.
Just across the Tamar in South East Cornwall

Solo 4928
Solo 3406
Hit 5 Sold
JohnB
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:48 pm

Re: Kestrel Help

Post by JohnB »

Hi Phil
Thanks
The 15mm is the width of the luff groove where it is widened out to take the gooseneck slider and make the sail entry.. There is a short wider bit at the bottom end of the 14mm section to get the slider in and out.

If Nessa doesn't come up with one I'm sure yours could be made to fit. The square hole in the boom is 1/2" or 12 mm

Cheers
JohnB
JohnB
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:48 pm

Re: Kestrel Help

Post by JohnB »

Hi Sami
" first thought was that the centre-plate may be the type that just has a slot instead of a hole...

I'll try that. I hope it's not the case, I think a slotted plate is unseaworthy. To many chances of a serious rotup then things go pearshaped. All that weight dangling free on a bit of wire. No.
You still need to extract the pin to check it...

It is the arrangement used on YM dayboats and West Wight potters [alright, I know the wwp is not a racing dinghy, but it is classic...}[some would say the dayboat aint a racer either, but a lot are raced in Poole]

Cheers
John
Post Reply