recomisioning a mirror after a long layup

[Stephen Hawkins]

I cannot understand why the Mirror was taking on this Role when it was already being fulfilled by the Cadet class. Whilst the Cadets do not necessarily suffer from the same extremes (although it is probably a close run thing) as the Mirrors seem to be, if the above is true, you could still get a wooden Cadet to the front of the fleet - or you could up to a couple of years ago. The one thing I used to laugh about is how expensive the top boats could get after being sailed by a top helm. A sub £1000 boat would suddenly become a £4000 boat, if its helm got into the Zone squad, let alone the National squad.

And sails suddenly become excruciatingly expensive, as they 'have' to bought from the top makers to be taken seriously. Then there is the boat insurance, which starts to creep up, as Daddy no longer knows one end of a paint brush from the other and all damage is now repaired through insurance.........

It was with great relief to me, when we managed to sell my son's Cadet for a reasonable about of money after we operated it for 8 years. Costing us a couple of coats of varnish and one coat of paint in all that time. Not that he was competitive, he did most of his sailing at our club, bringing on the new crews and budding helms. Not that he got any thanks for that.

Cheers

Steve Hawkins

[JimC]

and is no longer an accessible "bottom end" starter boat for young families. .

I don't think that role is very popular any more... None of those small 11footish Dad-and-younger-child classes seem to be healthy. Whereas 30 years ago Dad would be in a boat with his son, these days its much more Mum on the beach with son or daughter out in a singlehander.

[jules22]

Interesting comments !, one of my daughters crews on cadets and Steve's comments certainly ring true with me.
If you think back to the original concept of the mirror , cheap/diy build , it has lost its way bigtime !, sad really.

Thanks Rupert, I had forgotten about that place, I did use them a few years back and they were very helpful.

Anyway back to the thread, what's a good filler on ply ?.

Cheers. J
PS. I believe your old cadet recently changed hands Steve, I will try to find out what it sold for if your interested.

[Stephen Hawkins]

Jules,

Don't get me wrong, Both Chris and I found the sailing with Cadets at SCSC a very positive experience. We both learned a great deal.

These boats do change hands quite often for many different reasons. And it is of little concern to me now that we are done, although Chris might be interested on how Oxo is fairing. He is enjoying a sort of low key stooging around in his British Moth when the mood takes him. Typical teenager, there are now many other distractions, college, job, hooning around on his Vespa, etc.

I spoke to Jim only last month. No mention of Cadets changing hands at that time. I was under the impression Oxo and Victorious were in storage for the winter. Although its new owner might be interested in some history.

Cheers

Steve Hawkins

[jules22]

Steve. I was at the club working weekend on saturday (putting in new tie down points for cadets) and I overheard a conversation that suggested oxo had recently changed hands. J

[Stephen Hawkins]

I actually still have Oxo's wooden mast and boom, that originally came with it. Although the mast has a crack in it.

Cheers

Steve H

[jules22]

Early finish at work today so..........
Hull sanded all over with 120g , wiped down and all the taped seams epoxied over.
The hole in the bottom has been tidied up and a 3 layer grp patch over the old repair to stiffen it up ! . The center board case has also recieved some resin, I have picked up some ronseal 2 part filler so will try to bang that on tomorrow night ! .

Have won a old launching trolley on ebay for £20 its way too long so will need to be shortened, which works in well as there is some rot on the tube ends looking at the pictures, hence why it was so cheap. some "cut and shut" needed ,think I will add a 3rd wheel at the front to help take the weight off the handle if the kids are using it on there own.

REF, paint: wondered about garage floor (industrial resin type) paint !, as I will cover the outside of the hull in epoxy resin once all the filling and fairing is done to keep the wet out, all this needs is protecting from uv degredation !, any oppinons on this route welcome .

anyone know the length of a mirror trolley, handle to axle ?.

cheers. J

[Rupert]

Not got one handy to measure, but the boat is 11 feet, so you want 1/2 that plus a few inches to allow the boat to tip forwards, not back.

[Stephen Hawkins]

There might be one at the club to purloin/borrow. I got a hold of one for Charlotte Billington (She who occasionally crewed for me in my N12), when her kids were dabbling with Cadets. She was considering getting an old Mirror over from friends on the Isle of White. But the Mirror was not up to it. So the trolley has been sitting in the boat park ever since in a spare slot on the second row. I have not spoken to her for months, but I am not sure she is even considering joining a sailing club, let alone SCSC, as the chap in her life has interests elsewhere.

Its a little silver painted effort with solid wheels.

Just a thought.

Steve Hawkins

[jules22]

thanks guys.


bit more done tonight, filler on, not that impressed with it . goes off very fast .

trolley collected and home. sanding and first coat of primer with luck tomorrow.

[LASERTOURIST]

It is incredible that the Mirror (basically a DIY Popuboat that haunted the lower middle / Working class second hand Austin minis roof racks on their way to the holiday sites in the Late 60's when i crossed the channel to improve my english) is now built to standards best suited for the 505, with a rocketing price (and i suppose dwindling production numbers )

I did a series of aricles for the french Laser Newsletter , Titled Life and Destiny of Popuboats classes, and subtitled ...or why I always pay more to go racing.

It was centerd on boats originatd in France (Intl 420 and Vaurien) but i also dealed with the first Popuboat (the Star...yes it used to be a poor man's yacht back in...1911) , the Sunfish and the Oppie...and indeed the Mirror , that never quite caught this side of the channel , though there were some attempts to import it , either in kit form or as a completed boat...

In most cases the same thing occured: The pressure of competition "bettering th boat"...prices going to silly levels , a jungle of vectran / kevlar spaghettis growing in the cockpit....and finally the class activity and membership dropping quite low indeed

The only exception seemed to be the US sunfish that stuck to it's original "beach culture" , even if some serious racing took place , thanks to the huge number of sunfishes built in the US by Alcort , in a prefiguration of the yet to come Laser.

[davidh]

This time last year I was still recovering from being on the main stage at the Dinghy Show, both days, giving the illustrated talk on 50 years of the Mirror dinghy. Now whilst it would be nice for me to believe that the crowds were there to see ME, I have to accept that they were there to hear the Mirror 'story' (and just by coincidence, I'm doing the same talk again next Friday at a very well know South coast club...where mirrors are popular not only for racing - but just bumbling).

However, as anyone who was there (including many here from the CVRDA - it is really reassuring to see so many friendly faces in the audiences - with the exception of Sandy who had that look of "I'll get a beer off him now for sure") will tell you - for the Mirror talk the main stage area was packed solid. You're illuminated for the cameras on the main stage, so it is a tad difficult seeing past the lights, but all I could see was a 'sea of red' - the kids who were wearing Mirror Red Tee shirts! Hundreds and hundreds of them... then hundreds more! Anyone who thinks that the Mirror is a 'has been' class just needs to look around them. Sure, the good old days when the kits sold in their thousands have gone, but then so have the glory days for most of the classes - few boats can really say that they muster support in the thousands nowadays, but I think you'll find that the Mirror is one of them. Nor is it just reliant on racing, unlike the plastic fantastic that the authorities try and impose in it's place! I see Mirrors on the river used as tenders, sailed singlehanded for fun.....fishing.....But let's talk about the racing, as some of the 'experts' on here have already given their opinions! I was at the Nationals and saw more, better sailing, enjoyment, fun, all girl teams, dads and sons/daughters and all in 'good behaviour' than I've seen in a long time. Now it just so happens that at the same time, I'd been RO for the Nationals for one of the 'new' boats that is supposed to have displaced the Mirror. The Club came close, very close to at least one Rule 69 protest.............

Now I am sure that I'll be told in reply that my thoughts do not apply north of the A27/M27 or even more so, south of St Catherine's Point, but you'll have to work much harder to convince me that just trotting out pap sentences such as "basically a DIY Popuboat that haunted the lower middle / Working class second hand Austin minis roof racks on their way to the holiday sites in the Late 60's " is anything other than insulting. Moreover, it is factually incorrect!

As part of the research for my talk, I spoke with the likes of Ian Pinell (505 World Champion being just one of his titles), Ben McGrane, Ian Walker oh....and this guy called Ben Ainslie. They all said the same thing.... that they learnt the RIGHT skills in the Mirror and still feel that this is the boat that does it all.

[LASERTOURIST]

I didnt mean harm about the Mirror, in fact i have the same kind of fondness for the Vaurien,which was the french equivalent of the Mirror and i deeply regret that dinghy sailing seems to loose the kind of big following it enjoyed in the 60,s and 70,s.

Only , in the late sixties many things in England were quite exotic for a continental teenager, and the long line of minis on narrow and winding british roads , one out of seven or ten topped with a mirror dinghy, generally double-acting as a spare luggage compartment (and stopping at 5 o clock sharp on road lay by for the ritual tea, allowing continental motorists to proceed somewhat less leisurely ) was one of the striking exotic things that made our best hereditary ennemies country so different.

Car topping was not much in fashion in France (it tookthe Laser and the winsurfing craze for that) and it is one memory that lasts after some forty years (I even remeber buying a sailing magazine entierly devoted to small boats with a big enquiry about what load the car makers allowed and recommended...the best part of it being Reliant refusing to either forbid loading something on the top of the 3 wheelers (Regal, rialto, robin..etc) or allowing it or quoting a maximum figure....obviously some people did car-top boats on them and reliant was unwilling to lose customers )

My article inthe Laser Newsletter even concluded vith a line about one of the earliest mirrors becoming a museum exhibit , along with Knox Johnson Swahili or Chichester's Gipsy moth , something in the style of : " such popular cockleshells deserve their "lettres de noblesse" but it is in England only that this will be done.

[davidh]

Hi LT,

You are so right about the Mini - indeed, the very earliest pictures of the first boat (taken by Eileen Ramsey) at Hamble show it being loaded on to a Mk I mini.......

The story of the boat is far more complex than you might first think! From the outset, it occupied a very different place in the UK dinghy sailing psyche to the Cadet! There is though a very good reason why British Dinghy sailors bleed red blood - it is because we all grew up sailing Mirrors at some point in our lives.

I am 99% sure that next Friday night will be the same as every other night that I do this talk. I'll ask for a show of hands for all who've sailed in the Mirror....there will be very few who do not have their hands up!!

Yes, the Winder Mirror has changed things but at last year's show they built a wooden boat, from the kit, in 2 days! A good boat too - great for club and event sailing!

It's a shame you can't make it over - I think you'd enjoy the talk!

D

[LASERTOURIST]

I think most really sucessful boats (over 40 000) grew some way outside the sailing establishment and generally against some similar boat endorsed By ISAF, IYRU , FFV , .

The Cadet was backed by the RYA and Prince Philip and started earlier than the Mirror , yet it dindn't reach by far the same production numbers , while the Mirror got the DIY TV show and the Daily Mirror support ....The Mirror outstripped the Cadet in production figures even though the Cadet had the "more efficient" Marconi rig from the start

In France the FFV backed the Mousse (A Cornu design, like a downsized Caneton, vith a properly veed bottom, proper buoyancy tanks, even a self draining double bottom) which in some respect was more refined than the Vaurien, but the Vaurien was supported by the Comités d'Enreprise scheme (a small slice of boss money compulsorily channeled into the workforce leisure activities in 50+ employees buisnesses)...The Vaurien went in the 30 000+ mark while the "official" Mousse had only a production run of a few hundreds.