'Sharpening' cam cleats and no bung holes

[Michael4]

Hello,

I'm new here and close to finishing a little winter 'refit' project.

As things start to come back together I realise a couple of things need sorting out.

The old cam cleats seem to slip. I think they are Tufnol. I assume the 'teeth' are worn. Can I re-work or sharpen them in some way or would I be wasting my time?

The boat is without bung holes. It is clinker and has been out of the water for a few years. However good my sealing I fear she will sink quite quickly when first launched.

The idea of drilling a holes in the bottom plans of the boat really does not appeal but if it has to be done it has to be done. What do you reckon and if needed where might I find some small fittings?

Thanks in advance

Michael

[phil58490]

I have tried sharpening tufnol cleats with limited success, I found that the type of rope had more effect on the grip available. Old style soft cored matt rope gripped better than the newer hard rope. I eventually replaced the cleats with newer one which solved the slippage problem. As I remember I found some cleats with the same fixing position so I did not have to make any new holes. That was many years ago on a Heron dinghy but I would guess that following the conversion to metric sizes it might be more of a problem to get matching sizes now but I certainly have a number of old cam cleats in my 'too good to throw out but unlikely to ever need' box, free to a good home.

I can't offer any help on bung holes but if you tell us what sort of boat it is someone on here will have been there and done that or offer another solution.

[JimC]

The idea of drilling a holes in the bottom plans of the boat really does not appeal

Me neither. If they can't go through the stern I'd put a small self bailer in the boat so she can drain through that when on the trailer. OK its an extraordinarily expensive bung, but they're nice for getting rid of spray too and its so much more elegant than an 'ole.

[Rupert]

My Mirror has 2 bung holes in the bottom. They work fine, so long as you remember toput the bung in!

They are threaded bungs and seem a lot shorter than normal ones, but they came with the boat, so no idea where they came from.

[Michael Brigg]

Why can't they go in the transom like a normal dinghy? The water may not have a clear run to the stern but it will get there unless the ribs are filled with a sealant.

If you are worried about pooling between the timbers this will still happen even with bungs in the bottom. It shouldn't matter too much anyway as some moisture has to be retained to keep the planking tight.

Planks will expand sideways by a remarkable amount, This occurs by a process similar to osmosis and so it will generate an enormous amount of tension as the timbers and fastenings tighten. The tension created not only makes the boat watertight, but more importantly, like the air pressure in the side bags of a RIB it will stiffen the whole of the hull. I believe controlled damp like this is an integral part of why clinker construction was the choice for racing dinghies until moulding and cross ply construction came along. It may seem surprising but Clinker construction is the cheapest lightest and strongest construction technique for dinghies before the advent of "curing" (ie Epoxy) glue.

Alternatively, Clinker dinghies would often be simply tipped up to clear the water. The gunwhale will tell you this if there is no filling piece between the ribs or capping along the top. When tipped over, water (and debris such as fish guts, sand and seaweed)can run freely up between the timbers and out through the gunwhale.

[Michael4]

Thanks for the suggestions, I won't waste time sharpening cleats...

Regarding bungs I thought about going through the transom first but don't really want to mess with the way in which the planks are fixed (nailed). I like the idea of a self bailer but fear that the boat being a Tideway it will never achieve the speed for it to work properly!

On reflection I ought simply to try sponge and chopped milk bottle bailer for a season and see how I get on. I'll be taking the boat down to the local marina in the next few weeks and will launch it and leave it to float (or sink slowly) for a few days. As you say, an inch of salt water in the boat is no problem, so I'll make sure my cover is watertight.

Michael

[PeterV]

I have sharpened the tufnol mainsheet cleats on my Finn, but the biggest improvement was from stripping them down, cleaning them out and using a lubricant. It is the case though that they don't grip as well on modern hard ropes, but I now only get a bit of slippage in strong winds. I put up with this because I don't really want to modernise the boat too much.

[kfz]

Thanks for the suggestions, I won't waste time sharpening cleats...

Regarding bungs I thought about going through the transom first but don't really want to mess with the way in which the planks are fixed (nailed). I like the idea of a self bailer but fear that the boat being a Tideway it will never achieve the speed for it to work properly!

On reflection I ought simply to try sponge and chopped milk bottle bailer for a season and see how I get on. I'll be taking the boat down to the local marina in the next few weeks and will launch it and leave it to float (or sink slowly) for a few days. As you say, an inch of salt water in the boat is no problem, so I'll make sure my cover is watertight.

Michael

No definitely sharpen them or at least dress the edges with a small file, they do wear.

[Pat]

Having spent some time in P&B (chandlers) this weekend feeling various ropes to find new smooth jib sheets I can say that there is a wide variety available and the"hairier" ones will be gripped better by old cleats.
Where do you sail? There is a good Tideway fleet at Bosham and you will probably find advice online from the class association.

[miracle]

I have sharpened the tufnol mainsheet cleats on my Finn, but the biggest improvement was from stripping them down, cleaning them out and using a lubricant. It is the case though that they don't grip as well on modern hard ropes, but I now only get a bit of slippage in strong winds. I put up with this because I don't really want to modernise the boat too much.

have just done the same with the old holt allen cam cleats as one of the springs had snapped ,took them apart and cleaned all the years of grit and grime away with a rag and wd40 they now operate freely.

[Obscured by clouds]

ah! I said I'd look out a spring for you did'nt I? what is the part number so I can get the right one [if I have it]. Conversely someone else might have a spare.

[phil58490]

I am sure I have some of those (complete) going spare - let me know if you need some and I will hunt them out.

[miracle]

Thankyou very much folks , greatly appreciate your help , i have a cleat coming tomorrow , which i believe has the same springs, so i shall butcher that one , if all fails tomorrow i will definately accept your very kind offers, great stuff

[ent228]

"will launch it and leave it to float (or sink slowly) for a few days" This triggered warning bells.
Skiffs and Schooners by RD Culler suggests covering the inside of a dried out clinker boats with sacking or similar, keeping it out of the sun and letting a hose run very slowly into the bottom. Water will pour out of all the holes and gaps and over a few days the planks will take up and the water will stop comming through.

Depending on the wood this can happen slowly over a day or so or over a few hours. Which ever way you will need bung holes as without them the boat takes up and then fills up from the hose and then breaks in half from the weight of the water inside.

The reason for doing this with clean water is if you do it afloat all sorts of bits of rubbish can get into the gaps and when they tighten up will be trapped. As the clinker boat will "work" as it sails the bits of rubbish will wear the plank joints and you will end up with worse and worse leaks over the years.

Also if you sink it and there are powerboats around the water sloshing backwards and forwards might strain the transom.

Some of the Salmon boats down here used to have holes in the botton for drainage. They just pushed a cork straight into the hole.

[Michael4]

Thanks folks.

Been out a couple of times, some leaks around the centre board casing but otherwise, with thanks to Sikaflex, not too bad.

Taken to leaving the boat with a couple of buckets worth of cleanish salt water in in it. It seems to take longer to drain away as time passes!