Spider...removing the cobwebs! N12 2523

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Stephen Hawkins
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Re: Spider...removing the cobwebs! N12 2523

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:56 pm

Thankss Rupert.

The biggest issue I am going to have is putting it together, as I did not take it apart.

Just work through the pile until nothing is left......

On another subject - The mast. Sami pointed out to me that the mast has quite a noticeable set to it. There is a definite curvature along the bottom third of the mast, centered round the goose neck. There is no kink to speak of. Obviously lots of tension for prolonged periods. Not sure if it is going to be a problem, and for a boat at this end of the price bracket, I have no wiggle room to do much about it any way. I have two N12 masts at home, one is too long and the other too short - typically.

The shrouds have levers at the bottom to tension the rig, but I do not think they are adjustable as such, i.e. not quadrant type, but they seem to on/off in nature. I will figure it out. Nice to see another wheeled kicker and a metal triangle thingy....Should be fun for the crew....

Cheers
Steve Hawkins

1967 National 12 2383 "Sparkle"

phil58490
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Re: Spider...removing the cobwebs! N12 2523

Post by phil58490 » Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:38 pm

I used to crew a National 12 of this era, that had non adjustable levers. I think they were only there so you could slacken the leeward shroud down wind to give the mainsail a better shape and not be deflected by the shroud. If I remember correctly they were set by screws and a heavy weather gybe caused them to slip leaving a very floppy lopsided rig. We had to retire a couple of times with this problem. The rig was tensioned by the jib halliard.
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Stephen Hawkins
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Re: Spider...removing the cobwebs! N12 2523

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:49 am

Update:

I have re-instated the blocks and cleats on the thwarts and gone for a pulley type kicker arrangement using the bright yellow rope and blocks supplied - able to be set either side of the thwart -abandoning the wire/lever type kicker. The rest of the wheel kicker setup is being re-purposed for the downhaul in the short term, as I think this was how the boat had evolved anyway.

I attempted to put the sails up last night and set up the standing rigging and rake. Still got a little bit of fiddling to do – i.e. use shorter shackles, etc to get the rake right(ish) without running out of adjustment. I shan’t be using too much tension on such an old boat though.

But the biggest issue I have is that the bolt rope on the main sail has shrunk in length and is perhaps thicker as well. It took all my strength to pull it up the mast, plus a lot of screeching from the pulleys in the mast, and I did not even get it to the top. Very tight in the slot – But I also had run out of room – even if I had managed to pull the sail all the way to the top – I would then have not been able to connect the boom. And I also did not get he foot to stretch anyway near to the black band. And the sail looked awful as a result - limp, baggy and with a 'floppy' leech.

What are my options? The sail has plenty of life left in it otherwise. Its a Jeckells sail with plenty of crinkle left in it.

However, in the short term I do have plenty of spares – I have an old loose foot main that I used on Sparkle, I can use whilst I figure out what to do.

I did eventually figure out what to jamming cleat to the right of the centreboard was for – the main halyard. I still have to figure out what to do with the halyards once I have pulled the sails up though. There does not seem to be any place to tie off the loose rope. I bought two cleats, but I cannot put them on the mast, or I would never get it through the hole in the deck! A couple of bags might even be in order?

Still, nearly there!

Cheers
Steve Hawkins

1967 National 12 2383 "Sparkle"

JimC
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Re: Spider...removing the cobwebs! N12 2523

Post by JimC » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:04 am

Stephen Hawkins wrote:What are my options?
I wonder if you could just stretch it between a few trees in the garden and see if the luff rope will stretch. If you don't put any load on the leech and makes sure that its only stretching the rope, not the cloth I can't see it will do any harm. Otherwise a sailmaker will put a new luff tape and rope on for you, but of course it won't match the cloth colour.[/quote]

Sticky Fingers
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Re: Spider...removing the cobwebs! N12 2523

Post by Sticky Fingers » Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:29 am

For £25 there is a mast and boom on the 12 website might be worth looking at. If the shrouds don't fit my local chandlery made some up for £35. Could save messing around esp if mast is bent as you say


Martin

Stephen Hawkins
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Re: Spider...removing the cobwebs! N12 2523

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:46 am

Unfortunately, that mast and boom is in Bonny Scotland. It would be £125 by the time I picked it up.

Yes the bend in the mast might well be implicated in my droopy boom, etc.

Last night I took the boat up to the sailing club and bought Sparkle home for its re-deck.

I tried to bend back the mast last night when I rigged her with the aid of a robust picnic table. But it was having none of it, just sprung back to its current curvature. Did not want to push it too much as I did not want to dent it.

Spider has been rigged for lowers, that are currently not fitted. I have never used Lowers on a boat before, but I understand they are normally only put on when going downwind?

The boat also does not have a forstay, just a jib halyard. I might just try for a while with less rake - i.e. slightly shorter jib halyard and put the lowers in to straighten it up a bit - but I will probably just create a S bend instead :(

The other thing I noticed, was that the loose foot sail I rigged on Spider to temporarily replace the mainsail with the shrunk bolt rope, I also could not pull right to the top of the mast - otherwise I could not secure the tack to the boom on the fixed goose neck. It went up easily enough, though. So Spider's mainsail might not be as bad as I thought. Of coarse, every N12 sail is different and should always be matched with its jib. So a bit of stretching might help things.

This might all be a bit of a 'storm in a tea cup' and she might well sail okay with the replacement loose foot. We launch on Saturday morning :shock:

Cheers
Steve Hawkins

1967 National 12 2383 "Sparkle"

Rupert
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Re: Spider...removing the cobwebs! N12 2523

Post by Rupert » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:28 am

Are you joining in with WSC Regatta weekend, Steve? - suspect we have had the conversation about it, but brain filled up when I was about 35, and nothing since has stayed...
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Re: Spider...removing the cobwebs! N12 2523

Post by Pat » Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:57 am

Pity you didn't find that mast a month ago since Sandy's been to Scotland twice recently.

Fixed lowers just give stability for the deck stepped mast and hold the lower mast in shape as it bends but adjustable lowers are usually combined with raking rigs as on the modern Merlin and raking rigs usually have loose footed sails. Lots of rig info on the Merlin website that may help.
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Stephen Hawkins
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Re: Spider...removing the cobwebs! N12 2523

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Sat Jul 26, 2014 3:45 pm

I sailed Spider today. Quite nice really. Only in Light winds with Katy. Mast was the least of my concerns: Self bailers both let water in. Looks like new gaskets required on both. Also the rudder blade did not want to stay either up or down. Still helped from snagging too much weed though. A worn cleat and some elastic that isn't. Got off quite lightly I think. Forgot my camera though.

Cheers
Steve Hawkins

1967 National 12 2383 "Sparkle"

Stephen Hawkins
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Re: Spider...removing the cobwebs! N12 2523

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:16 pm

Tonight I sorted the rudder and looked at the original main. I cut all the stitching at the clew and then cut the bolt rope at the clew. I then stretched the foot and the luff so that the bolt rope retreated into into the channel smoothing out the sail cloth around the bolt rope. I then got new bit of rope to bridge the gap. About 4" on the foot and 10" on the luff and then stitched it all back up again. Now I have a smooth sail cloth around the bolt rope and not a lot of bunched up sail cloth to clog up the slot on the main and boom. Try it out tomorrow.
Cheers
Steve Hawkins

1967 National 12 2383 "Sparkle"

Stephen Hawkins
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Re: Spider...removing the cobwebs! N12 2523

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Tue Jul 29, 2014 11:15 am

Just an additional to my findings on sailing Spider.

She seems to go quite well. My 12 year old daughter was crew for me on Saturday in light conditions and to be honest, initially we were almost trying to sit on each other. We both seemed to want to use the thwart. It was so light that neither of us could really sit on the sides – but we worked it out with Katy counterbalancing me on the other side. But I need to lose some weight as if I sat any further back I would be letting it load of water through the transom flaps! sailing can be a cruel mistress - porky :oops: But when the wind did pick up, so did Spider.

I had to change the jib sheets as they were far too thick. So I am currently using those from Planet. I will be brining one of my tie downs back into service as sheets, once they have been through the washer!

On Sunday I launched without a crew in stronger conditions and found her to be quite lively. In fact without a crew I would not have wanted the conditions to be any stronger until I get more used to her. I am still finding my way around and I think I still have some changes to make.

A chat with Rupert, bought forward the suggestion that my crew needs to sit on the forward centreboard support, facing rearward like they do in Fireflies in light weather. Not sure Katy will like that idea! But I might put a little pipe lagging secured with tie-wraps around the supports so it is at least an option.

Oh, and for the time being I am going to tape up those self bailers - that will keep the cockpit much drier! Duct tape to the rescue!

Cheers
Steve Hawkins

1967 National 12 2383 "Sparkle"

roger
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Re: Spider...removing the cobwebs! N12 2523

Post by roger » Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:12 pm

Stephen, I have used a little smear of silicone sealant around the self balers in the past. Then if you do need them you can open them without resorting to inspecting the bottom of the boat to peel off the duct tape. I found it worked well.
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Stephen Hawkins
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Re: Spider...removing the cobwebs! N12 2523

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:00 pm

That might be a better answer, thanks, although I am sure I could push the blighters through a bit of tape if the need arose.....But I do want to spend as little time as possible under the boat.

Cheers
Steve Hawkins

1967 National 12 2383 "Sparkle"

solentgal
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Re: Spider...removing the cobwebs! N12 2523

Post by solentgal » Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:31 am

Thanks fro the email update Stephen.......you were right I hadn't been following, so just read through the above......been really busy with all the building work here. Sounds like you're getting there, and glad she's on the water where she belongs! Looking forward to seeing some pics in due course :)
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Re: Spider...removing the cobwebs! N12 2523

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:26 am

Other than the comments about the general layout of the internal structure of Spider on another thread and its lack of seating space up forward, I have the following updates.

Try as I might, I cannot get used to the awful slot gasket. It is of a very stiff fiberglass material, which is an serious effort to push through and also keeps 'grabbing' the board when you are trying to pull it up. So I have bought a new sail cloth gasket which I will try and fit this weekend or before, if there is enough light. I actually want to sail her this weekend.

A mast might be coming my way, perhaps off a 420 if negotiations are completed satisfactorily. I really do not care if it is a bit taller, and the spreaders lower. At least it will be straight. But that is a bit more of a long term project.

A box section boom would be nice as well, so I will keep my eyes open for one of those as well. All on the cheap, all off abandoned boats at the club.

Cheers

Steve
Steve Hawkins

1967 National 12 2383 "Sparkle"

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