K89

[Mike Bridgwater]

Just been looking at an old thread (IC K89) and there are some good photos there (except in much better condition than now of course, given the crash and other deterioration). Some interesting theories there about her history.
One thing... I took the sails in to Dick at R and J sails last week and he discerned a very faint "Lucas" on the K89 sail. Possibly made by Bruce Banks before he left Lucas he said. This would mean that the German stamp was applied when the boat was taken to Germany for the Europa Cup? Which could mean she's not German or Swedish?
The smaller main has a Swedish canoe association stamp but can't see a maker's mark. Interestingly K133 has been superimposed on K86. All very confusing!

[dronskiuk]

I will take some pictures and get them online. I can't find anything on Proctor canoe designs, as you say, she could be a different hull... There's no number on the hull but she came with 2 sails: one K89 and the small one K133.

Mike - when I got her the sail that was originally with the boat was the one with the Swedish measurement stamp on it, I think this is more likely to be the original.

NB - Also the German connection was only that I had the conversation that led to purchase whilst in Germany at a show - unless there is any other evidence that I don't know of then this is probably a red herring.

[Mike Bridgwater]

Interesting. That would make her K86 or K133. The German thing was that there is a German measurement stamp on the K89 (Lucas sails) sail. Would the person you bought her from maybe have more info? Certainly a v unusual shape. I have just finished refurbing the seat, carriage, rudder etc. and these are certainly of amateur construction. Can't say about the hull yet, but suspect that is the same.

[JimC]

K86 is believed to have been exported to Sweden in 1965. K133 was Eric Twiname's boat. Eric did the 1978 worlds in Sweden, presumably in 133. 89 is IMHO still the most likely boat, being a known one off design. There weren't that many, no like Cherubs!

[Mike Bridgwater]

Thanks for that Jim. It's rather cool to have a sail once owned by Eric Twiname! He was a bit of a hero of mine in the 70s, his book "Start To Win" transformed my sailing at the time and still v relevant now; given my recent performances, could do with re-reading it!

[Ed]

There was a thread on this Canoe on the IC forum:

http://bitly.com/1LZouQY


Never came to any definite decision on what No it was though.

eib

[Mike Bridgwater]

Thanks for that link. I wonder if any of the proctor and Chippendale canoes are still around to compare? My hunch, given the ply construction and pretty basic quality work on the seat and carriage, is that she is an amateur experiment. Looking forward to seeing if it works!

[Ed]

The Nethercott design was based pretty closely on the Proctor hull, so I don't think there would be a big difference. As far as I know all Chippendale built boats were to either the Proctor or Nethercott design.

I have now seen lots of images of K89, but none of them which really show the overall hull shape of the boat. Would be good to see that. There is always the chance that the boat is not exactly an 'Int Canoe' but built to a slightly loose interpretation of the rules and sailed as a 'National Canoe'. There are examples of this....more in the US than here, but still they do exist. If this was the case, it would likely be rigged as an IC, but not given a registration number.

eib

[jpa_wfsc]

I had checked a few dimensions (width, length), and K89 was OK on them for IC rules (development rules from before the one design). No hollow sections. The seat would measure OK I think - it is possibly shorter than allowed on the Nethercott era boats. Unless, the overall width has to include the gunwales, which are 15 mm each side outside of the width rule. The skin is OK though..

The stern is very Nethercott, the bow is a little fuller, and the chine is kept parallel all the way to the chain plates so as the bow curvature forms, the chine rises to meet the sheerline. Just like a C-fly, but half the width and somewhat longer! If I was thinking to make a canoe that would plane early and not be too worried about light weather skin drag, I might go along those lines. The centerboard is a long way back - when fully down it will be at about the roach of the mainsail - which might come from thinking that most canoes were sailing with the board most of the way up anyhow. There is scope in the construction to move it forward though... were you thinking of doing that Mike or leaving it where it is and seeing how it goes?

[Mike Bridgwater]

I didn't know there was a national canoe class, could be a possibility.... I will soon attempt to get some photos showing the hull lines Ed and see if that sheds any light on things...
As regards the board John, I'm working along the lines that the boat has been successfully sailed before and hopefully will work! As you say though, the position of the centreboard and the fact that the jib tack is right forward at the stem does make me wonder!

[ent228]

Mega mast rake? Give you a fair bit of lift down wind in a blow as well

[Mike Bridgwater]

Yes, I'll give that a go when the time comes. In the mean time I've got half a dozen or so holes to mend! Just cleared space in the workshop so will post some pictures before and after....

[jpa_wfsc]

I didn't know there was a national canoe class, could be a possibility.... I will soon attempt to get some photos showing the hull lines Ed and see if that sheds any light on things...
As regards the board John, I'm working along the lines that the boat has been successfully sailed before and hopefully will work! As you say though, the position of the centreboard and the fact that the jib tack is right forward at the stem does make me wonder!

I also wondered about wing sail and single main - - an experimental boat. ?? That would make the CB position sensible.

[Ed]

I have a very small and high aspect-ration IC jib.

Brand new and made by Batt.


Wouldn't fit any normal IC, but might fit a boat with a very forwards mast?

Get in touch when you get closer to working out this stuff.

eib

[Mike Bridgwater]

Thanks Ed, when I get to the rig, I'll take some measurements. I do have the option, during the rebuild, to reposition the forward chainplate further aft as would be normal, but was thinking there must be some logic to it's existing positioning, and in the interests of originality, leave it where it is and see how it works out. Were there any single sail ICs pre Nethercott? I know there are one or two to the new rules (eg Aussie Hollow Log).