Packing a centerboard?

Rich · Post by **Rich** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:48 pm

Hi, I need advice on materials suitable to pack out a c\b, my c\b case is 30mm but the board is only 18mm. I therefore need to add 6mm cheeks to each side of the portion of the c\b that is always in the case ( i.e not exposed above or below the casing when the board is fully raised or lowered). It has been suggested to me that the best material to use is 4 layers (2 each side) of a Formica type laminate which is 3mm thick an will not take up water. Can anyone suggest where this material may be avialable in small sheets as I only need 4 pieces 200mm x 150mm each and would rather not buy a huge great sheet. Alternative material suggestions also welcomed.
Cheers
Rich

Post by **neil** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 7:54 pm

What about using a small sheet of tufnol....as seen at http://www.lightaero.co.uk/las/30?part=TUFNOL

regards

Neil

Post by **Rupert** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 8:49 pm

Assuming the centreboard is wood anyway, how is well sealed ply going to cause any more problems than the board itself?
Or if you want it, I have a big, fat 505 board that would probebly fit nicely in a 30mm slot, if you are anywhere near swindon. Needs a little TLC, but sound, and free to a good home!

Post by Ed » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:29 am

If only making cheeks.....then either a bit of glass covered ply....or tufnol would both work.

Dont' make them too big....it is a nightmare to get them in place and flat. tried doing this with large panels over most/all of case and it was very very hard and not all that sucsessful.

Would point out though that 18mm is a very thin board for any boat bigger than a mirror, what is it made of?. Not fast....and not very safe...would you want to put crew on it and bounce in rough conditions after capsize. I would only consider it if board covered in glass/carbon.....and even then it is not really thick enough to make glass/carbon work.

...but still best course of action...so....

rather than packing the case, wrap the board in a few layers of glass and maybe one of carbon.....

or take up Ruperts offer (if you don't....I will)

cheers

eib

Post by **Rupert** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:12 am

I've just dug ot out from under the pile of junk...it is a 30mm board. The shape is eliptical, with 48" from tip to pivot, 63" from tip to end of handle and approx 55" from tip to front edge, which slopes. It is 17 1/2" wide at the widist bit of the elipse.It could easily be shortened, and with more trouble, narrowed.
We hope to be moving house soon, so I will soon have a list of things I'll no longer be able to store, as I'll have to put up with a smaller workshop, even once I've extended the garage backwards. Before I take stuff to the dump (or, similar, advertize it on ebay!) I'll put it on here!

Jools · Post by **Jools** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:53 am

Rupert If Rich is not going to use your 505 board can I procure it from you in the next week or two? I was just about to buy the materials and make a 30mm thick board for Jupiter, my Planet class planker, which need a new full length board to make her usable for Frensham. 4' is just about right for length.

Post by **Rupert** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:21 am

Certainly! It is probebly a little heavy to post, though! We'll just wait for Rich's feelings on the matter - it may not suit his boat at all.

Rich · Post by **Rich** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:11 pm

Thanks for all the replies. My boats a self draining Phantom (don't all groan at once)which I am attempting to refurbish\restore. The centrboard is probably lighter than the ideal, but then that applies to the whole boat, very different to the OK I had previously. As suggested I think I will go with gluing Tufnol cheeks to the board rather than inside the case. I've seen some Tufnol on ebay, this is 'Carp' brand which I am assuming is OK and can be glued with epoxy?

Rupert, Thanks for the kind offer of the 505 board, I would have been very interested in this board as a plan 'B' option, but I would have to cut it down a fair bit and it seems a shame to butcher a good board if Jools or Ed can make use of it as is, so I'm happy for them have first dibs. However if there are no takers then please let me know and I will try to pick it up as I'm only in Newbury.

I hope you all don't mind me making the occasional post on this forum to tap the wealth of knowlege regarding wooden boats that appears to reside here. The Phantom class forum obviously reflects the way the class has gone (i.e. Plastic Fantastic, Carbon Pole jobs ) and advice on wooden boat problems is not always easily available.

Cheers
Rich

Post by **Rupert** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:56 pm

You're welcome, Rich. Nice boats Phantoms, though at 10 and a bit stone I did struggle when I borrowed one once! The other site that might have tips for you is the Churub one, where along with the carbon you do find bits and bobs about light weight ply.
There is a school of though on the forum which says that as old, single bottomed Phantoms are now so different from the new ones, we should allow them to race at our events, dispite the design date. As an insider, any views on this?

jpa_wfsc · Post by **jpa_wfsc** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:07 pm

Rupert might remember I used to sail a flat woodie phantom (I'm a bit better built for the class than he is!) No 14 wonder where she is now? Last seen in Bristol.

Certainly more or less a different class from the current FRP/Carbon boats. Bit like chalk and cheese actualy!

I would support the old Phantoms being in - maybe even a wooden self draining phantom as that must be very rare - I thought there might have been a few conversions of old wooden hulls to high floor configuration but not many?

john./

Rich · Post by **Rich** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:11 pm

I'm new to Phantoms and a fairly inexperienced sailor to boot so the 'Phant' is likely to be someting a baptism of fire for me, though luckily sailing on the Thames means one avoids most of the rough stuff. My Phantom like so many wooden self drainers is something of a paradox in that IMO the build construction is overly light to compensate for the extra weight of the false floor, it is astonishing the amount of wooden Phantoms you see with either double or single bottoms that have had a repair to the floor (my boat is no exception).My previous boat an OK was built like a brick karsi compared to the Phantom.

Like so many development classes the gulf between new epoxy boats and conventional wooden boats seems to be ever widening and there is some debate going on at present as to whether it is actualy even possible to build a wooden Phantom down to the current minimum weight of 62kgs. This is not a criticism as the current popularity of the 'Phantom' obviously means the association is doing something right, but it will be interesting to see whether a vintage wing develops like those in the N12 & Merlin classes.

Rich

JimC · Post by **JimC** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:33 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">[...debate going on at present as to whether it is actualy even possible to build a wooden Phantom down to the current minimum weight of 62kgs.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Shouldn't be much of a debate. It would be no problem at all for an experienced wood Moth or Cherub builder provided there are no scantlings rules forcing you to make bits that should be light heavy.

Jools · Post by **Jools** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:16 am

Rupert As Rich is planning to stick with the packing approach, can I arrange with you to pick up the board? We'll be passing through Swindon area on the 30th June late pm and 2nd July late pm. Drop me a line to Jupiter14@tesco.net if you are happy to do a deal to part with it.

Cheers

jpa_wfsc · Post by **jpa_wfsc** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:54 pm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Rich
 I'm new to Phantoms and a fairly inexperienced sailor to boot so the 'Phant' is likely to be someting a baptism of fire for me,

The main trick is to hike out hard when bearing away - roll the boat on top of yourself as you bear away and then relax in a bit. If the boat is healing away from the wind it will not bear off - just stall, the rudder gives up and in you go! And do not try to point to high - if you sail a little off close hauled upwind, she will plane for you and it is much faster to the windward mark that way! And make sure that the toe straps are both in the right place for your legs (you will be hiking hard a looooong time every sail) and securely fastened to a strong bit of the floor - mine pulled out two or three times as the florr got softer and softer with age! Glugg!!

though luckily sailing on the Thames means one avoids most of the rough stuff. My Phantom like so many wooden self drainers is something of a paradox in that IMO the build construction is overly light to compensate for the extra weight of the false floor, it is astonishing the amount of wooden Phantoms you see with either double or single bottoms that have had a repair to the floor (my boat is no exception).

I think you will find most wooden pahntoms of any type have floor repairs - it is such a large unsupported area! And they were never built very heavily! Perhaps the Mk 2 with chamfered side decks is the best compromise between stiffness and weight in wood?

At least with a double floor the centerboard case is well supported - I had to build in extra struts and things to stop my case flopping arround.

My previous boat an OK was built like a brick karsi compared to the Phantom.

Like so many development classes

phantom is not realy a development class! They have just allowed new design methods to give more performance, probably better life, and to keep the class alive at the competitive end of the fleet - very succesfuly too.

the gulf between new epoxy boats and conventional wooden boats seems to be ever widening and there is some debate going on at present as to whether it is actualy even possible to build a wooden Phantom down to the current minimum weight of 62kgs. This is not a criticism as the current popularity of the 'Phantom' obviously means the association is doing something right, but it will be interesting to see whether a vintage wing develops like those in the N12 & Merlin classes.

I guess it would be a good idea - a nice affordable way for larger sailors to enjoy a genuine performance singlehander (after the phantom you will find a laser underpowered and unsatisfying in almost any wind, uless you are in a closely fought class race).

Rich
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I hope you enjoy your phantom - I did mine!

j./