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General chat about boats
roger
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Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:08 pm
Location: Frome Somerset UK

Post by roger »

Hi all,

Sorry I havent posted anything since my promotion at the AGM.I havent really had time to think about the implications or how you as members would like to take things forward. I have to say I feel it is a privelidge to be asked to stand and hope I can fulfill the needs of the CVRDA and its members.
A few things have been suggested to me.
Firstly bringing the prize giving forward to the Nationals next year. This seems to me to be a sensible move and present travellers trophies etc at the Saturday evening meal. We can as has been suggested present this years travellers at Shearwater or as usual at Baltic Wharf. Discuss.....

Secondly Nationals for 2008. I have been in contact with David Henshall at Netley and he is going to give me some dates. Unfortunately the bank holiday weekend is not available but I have asked for August. This does of course bring up another problem. If we have a nationals in August is an event at the very popular Clwedog going to dilute numbers at Netley. So I see three options. Rearrange the calender so Clwedog is in another month, give Keith a well deserved year off or just fit it in a hope we get enough boats to Netley. My main concern is that if Netley dump another class to fit us in and we only show up with ten or fifteen boats it wont look good for us in the press and even more importantly we may not get offered an event there again and that sort of bad news travels. I think we need to show at least 25 boats and preferably 30+. DISCUSS.

Thirdly, Next years calender, we have had an offer from Starcross(Exmouth)which is sheltered tidal water. I personaly would like to see more sea events but realise it doesnt suit some of you with more fragile craft but they do give the canoes and larger boats room and consistant wind to spread their wings. Also it may get the message to the bigger boats could be encouraged out. I have one thought that says maybe more one day events but then we lose the social side of things which are very important to us all. One thing we seem to have learned is that an enthusiastic member in a host club makes it work and helps to encourage more people out.
Fourthly.
How do we grow the CVRDA out of the Southwest. We have of course Garry and co from Scotland and Hugh at Budworth and of course Brightlingsea in the east but should we be thinking of developing areas for travellers trophies and then come together for one big nationals which moves every year,or are we to soon for this? Maybe two types of event for inland and small boats and bigger open water boats. I dont know any of the answers but I am sure you all have oppinions. Lets hear them.
Lastly (I hope)
Racing. I am very aware that my crew gets a bit enthusiastic in his calling which for the less aggressive racers must be very intimidating and I will try to tone him down a bit, but and it is a big but, we try to race fairly and within the rules. We do our turns and if we infringe we would expect to be protested. There are some like us who race hard and there are some who race for fun and these people are the backbone of the organisation without them there is no fleet to come first or second or fourth. Being first of three is no achievement. Some larger and more experienced boats have been infringing and intimidating the more inexperienced boats and if you feel you have been wronged call protest and if the boat doesnt do his penalties carry it through. There should be no bad feeling its just a way of clarifying the rules and where you stand.
We must remember that some of our boats are quite fragile and I would certainly not take on a bigger heavier boat in "Shoestring". One of my aims next year is to continue to see fair play on the water as happens most of the time but if I see infringements I am not involed in I will be having a quiet word off the water and asking for retirements.
We are a self regulating sport and lets keep it that way. Sportsmanlike.

I am sure you all will have things to say so lets hear them. Not just the usual vocal crowd but the rest of you too.If its to scary to say it publicly send me an email.

Roger
Hornet 191 Shoestring,
Hornet 595 Demon awaiting restoration
Hornet 610 Final Fling
Hornet 353
Garry R
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Post by Garry R »

Good to see your comments Roger. A couple of points. Firstly I would be reluctant to see many of the two day events turn into one day events. Travelling from the far north means that I try to get as many bangs for the petrol bucks and to travel 400miles+ for a day's sailing is not on. In fact what I have tried to do is combine a holiday in July with the sailing either a CVRDA and a Merlin event a week or a fortnight apart. Select the events and timing and it works a treat. Where there are combined events so much the better (hence my question at the AGM as regards the success of the events and whether this was to continue) and I got the good vibes there. You are spot on as regards the social side too. The Merlin Vintage events are "one dayers" and I think they suffer as a consequence.

The second point you made as regards the intimidatory racing is spot on. However I don't think it is necessarily borne out of competitiveness but out of not knowing the rules. Having probably caught up 15+ boats on a run on the Monday and having weaved my way through the fleet keeping out of everone's way (my personal miracle) it was disappointing to lose the whole distance gained by a largeish keel boat squeezing between Terrapin and I when there was obviously no room and leaving a long paintmark on my rubbing strake and forcing me to a point where I was totally covered and in no wind at all. The basic "overtaking boat keeps clear" rule was waived, no one did turns and at the next windward mark the same boat hit the buoy and carried on turn free again. So it appears NOT to be keen racing but lack of rules knowledge. I am pretty new to the game as well but if I feel I have transgressed I do turns (lots of them!!) even though I may have been OK. I suppose part of the problem is that if a large boat gets a puff coming up to a mark it's difficult to slow down but the helm should be aware of the possibility and not barge through the fleet.

Point 3 - getting the fleet out of the southwest. That's tricky. It's easier for me (one boat) to travel to Clywedog than have all 30 travel to Aberdeen and seriously we don't have he facilities to cope with that type of event. My suggestion is to target a club or two in the midlands area, encourage the CVRDA in those areas and they may like to travel further north thus expanding our range. More Northern boats may turn up at that event. It's unlikely that I would go to the south coast even for the nationals. It's not at a time of year that allows a holiday to fit in (our schools are back by your August Bank Holiday) but I appreciate that I am in a minority on that one. Boats on the water at events is the way to go to encourage more entrants. The beauty of our craft will win people over.

My tuppence worth (although it looks like 2 quid's worth!!)
roger
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Location: Frome Somerset UK

Post by roger »

Many good points Keep them coming. Gary next time PROTEST.
or at least speak later and explain the rules. Especially if there is damage.
Hornet 191 Shoestring,
Hornet 595 Demon awaiting restoration
Hornet 610 Final Fling
Hornet 353
Rupert
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Location: Cotswold Water Park

Post by Rupert »

I'd agree with people sticking to the rules (though Garry, there is no "overtaking boat keeps clear" rule...) but it is important that all parts of the fleet stick to the rules. There have been cases where I've been approaching a windward mark on starboard, and those approaching on port have pointblank refused to believe that I have right of way, and that it was somehow "unsportsmanlike" for me to force them to tack off. A rules book costs very little compared to a boat, and it is helpful when racing to know that other boats know who has to avoid who when boats meet. That section of the rules is very short, and can even be downloaded from the ISAF site...
Rupert
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Trevor C
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Location: United Kingdom, Kent

Post by Trevor C »

I agree re the rules. As a relative novice (changed) I have read and re-read them a number of times and still struggle to apply them as I come to a mark, maybe with people on either side within a few feet, so if you see J9 doing something wrong then please let me know.
Netley sounds like a great idea. The sooner dates can be agreed the more likely people will be able to attend, myself included.
I am doing my bit to inform local CVRDA eligible boats to, at least, look at the website.
Uffa Fox Jolly Boat - J9
Mirror - 34359
Hornet - K140


Please see http://www.justgiving.com/160miles for my charity ride to Paris in May
Rupert
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Post by Rupert »

A relative notice????! A signpost saying "this is my father"?! You know, it has never occurred to me before that there is only 1 letter difference between novice and notice...
I agree about Netley, and from the Whelan household point of view, a non bank holiday meeting would be easier, though a Friday would take a little more organization.
Rupert
nick
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Post by nick »

Sorry, Roger. Don't agree on this enforcing the protest stuff. The RYA introduced it's Charter a couple of years ago to make rule observance easier, since when I have noticed a difference in behaviour at Open Meetings (not CVRDA I admit). The CVRDA should sign up to the RYA Charter, and should require clubs hosting events to sign up as well.

Regards

Nick
davidh
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Location: Ventor Isle of Wight

Post by davidh »

Roger, Nick and other 'contributors' to this string,

Firstly - Netley.

Because of those funny tidal happening (they go with the water tasting funny) the number of weekends when a 'good' event could be hosted is somewhat limited. Not only do you want a late midday tide but if possible you want neaps - certainly it would make a big difference for the slower/low handicap number boats.

There are only a handful of these weekends in the year and I'll do all I can to stake one fairly soon for a 'Nationals' event. But, I can tell you now - from what I saw of the 2008 tides, there was no 'good' dates in August - mid to late july looked to be the best bet. I'm very mindful that many other clubs such as Frensham have worked hard over a number of years to accomodate the CVRDA, I would not want to 'displace' any of these. But, the inland clubs do have a tad more flexibilty in so much that tide isn't an issue.

Bear with me and I will do all I can to identify a date soon - from that we can take a view on Netley's suitabilty for the big event of the year.

As too the rule observance issue - I guess this was bound to happen in some ways. People either don't know, or worser, they don't want to know. It is also very easy to hide behind ignorance of the rules, we all have to learn though. As Gary said, the 'good guys' will do turns if they are not sure, which is the sign of good sportsmanship. If.... if someone starts 'bullying' there way about there, out on the water, two things will happen. Once, they will find it a lonely place to sail, lonlier still ashore, if they still persist then I would imagine an old, experienced hand will bring him down to size with a protest just when it hurts most!

The final issue...growing the CVRDA outside of the South West: a good question, I know of a round dozen classic boats within a 15 minute drive of Netley, yet none of them turned up the other week.

In theory, with some help, legwork and a bit of publicity, we could aim for something else at netley - 40 boats. Why not? The peggies could take in a sail to Cowes to pay homage to their designer, merlins are next door to one of their spititual homes at netley, Proctor boats have Warsash and 'Proctor lands' nearby......AND Bill O'Brien could come and say a few words too.

All we need is a good weekend for ...tides!!!

And Gary - you WILL come south. The water here is fine and there are no Polar Bears wanting to steal your scarf between races. The H in the middle of david h henshall stands for Hamilton - and tey came initially from Denmead, just along the road. It has to be done....

D
David H
JimC
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Post by JimC »

We can probably host up to about twenty boats at Island Barn on a join in with Club racing basis, maybe more if Saturday only, but with Frensham and also now maybe Thames doing events not far away I'm not going to jump on any toes. Be much more difficult if it was more boats/close the water though.
Pat
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Post by Pat »

The Vintage Merlins sail at Shustoke (near Coleshill and Sutton Coldfield) and Banbury (Tim and Pat 1066) and at Hunts (St Ives) for one day events. Maybe we could join with them at one of these clubs or at one of their Thames venues eg Tamesis (Mervyn's home club) and pehaps join club racing on the Sunday.
I've a couple of contacts at Shustoke in the Larks who are also keen to get the classic fleet going...
(Half Cut and What a Lark Removals Ltd)
roger
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Post by roger »

Nick in reply. I think the RYA charter is definitely the way forward but you need someone to make a formal protest to then go forward to arbitration. The whole reason for a protest is to get people to discuss and understand rules and how it affects them and their conduct on the water.At Shearwater and elsewhere I have seen to many people who should know better disregard rules to the detriment of all those on the water, especially those who we have just coaxed out to have a go. Its no good telling someone you are a friendly crowd to have them cut up by the local bandit and chased off the water to never be seen again. I dont want this rules thing to be a major issue but I do want to see fair play to all those who come to join in. Its no good to encourage the old Enterprise out of the dinghy park for the one race he has ever done if he is going to be bullied straight back in never to be seen again.
The reason I put rules etc last on my list is because I think its the smallest issue but it seems to have sparked the most comment. May be we should draw a line on the rules thing and discuss the more important issues of how we move the CVRDA forward.
Should the year end be at the Nationals which may well move around according to availabilty of clubs to host?
What are your thoughts on events at Starcross? How many events can we manage? Should we join in with other class classic groups? I am glad I have encouraged some discussion because thats what I intended.
Keep it coming.
David there was a general consenus that Netley would be a welcome venue for the nationals at the AGM if July gives us the better tides then I am sure we can juggle the fixture list. Lets fix a date for a long weekend and go for 40 + boats. If everyone brings a friend then 40 is easily achievable. That will be more than many ordinary classes can achieve.
Hornet 191 Shoestring,
Hornet 595 Demon awaiting restoration
Hornet 610 Final Fling
Hornet 353
davidh
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Post by davidh »

Hey Gary,

Just had a brill idea!

CVRDA nats at netley - lets try for late July early august (still no confirmation yet...). Leave your boat here, get a lift into Southampton (7 miles by the stretchy ebay tape measure) then fly home to your abode in he land of snow and ice. A week later, fly back, pick up boat, turn left and head down to Looe for the Merlin Nationals - well, the proposed 3 day Cassic sub event. You'd only have to start on time to be on up on Sandy and Pat in 2121/Half Cut as they will stillbe looking for the watch, start line or asking themselves how long to go!!

How cool would that all be?

D
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Pat
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Post by Pat »

Merlin Nats next year are certainly tempting - we went down to Looe with the Larks this year for a recce. Maybe if there were enough real vintage boats they would do something more than just the "Prime of Life" and "Mature" sections. It just needs boats to register and put the pressure on.

As for the starting jokes - sometimes it pays to be late! We were 15 seconds down on first start at Clywedog, avoided the melee, tacked around the committee boat and pulled away onto the starboard side only to find ourselves out in front, as they'd all taken each other's wind either in the start or on the port side. It took Roger in the Hornet a lap and a half to catch us and he was the only boat to beat us on the water!!
(Half Cut and What a Lark Removals Ltd)
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Trevor C
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Post by Trevor C »

The Jollyboat owners have been thinking about a Nationals of their own and Netley would seem ideal as three are fairly local, I am less than 100 miles and Ed is a little further......
The sooner a date is fixed......
Uffa Fox Jolly Boat - J9
Mirror - 34359
Hornet - K140


Please see http://www.justgiving.com/160miles for my charity ride to Paris in May
chris
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Post by chris »

Jolly boat Nationals+Peggie nationals+ Vintage merlins + Other nearly lost class Nats + cvrda Nats. Why Not all join up?
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