A quick quiz

General chat about boats
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neil
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A quick quiz

Post by neil »

Just got back from Berlin and popped into the Deutsches Technikmuseum Berlin - well worth a visit.

Came across some interesting boats - anyone care to guess what they are?

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Boat number one

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Boat number two

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Boat number two again

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Boat number three

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Boat number three again

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Boat number four

There's a few more pics of them all at http://www.flickr.com/photos/dinghies/s ... 785827427/
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Re: A quick quiz

Post by ACB »

12 Square Metre Sharpie?

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Re: A quick quiz

Post by Rupert »

No 1 looks like an OJolle and 2 like a Pirat? I'll have to have a better look later.
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Re: A quick quiz

Post by davidh »

I'd say that Number 1 is an olympic mono-type, forerunner of the o-jolle

When do we get the answers?

D
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Re: A quick quiz

Post by neil »

No.1 is an O-Jolle
No.2 is a Pirat
No.3 is a Z-Jolle (and was my favourite boat, sympathetic restoration and I want one)
No.4 is a Klepper sailing canoe, a great piece of engineering as it all folds up into a bag.
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Re: A quick quiz

Post by Rupert »

And there was I thinking the Z was the country of origin or something like.
I've heard that the OK used the Pirat main sail as it's sail to keep costs down. Anyone know if that is true?
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Re: A quick quiz

Post by Ancient Geek »

Yes the Ok main came from the Pirat Jolle anyone who has read or has a copy of Manfred Currys books will recognise these boats they are all still raced and built on the lakes in Bavaria.
Wasn't the fully battened one also known as The Ferret? It is by the was in well layed out interesting museum.
The good museums are those run by enthusiasts not profoessional conservators that are just that (They have their place.) but mainly they have little love of the subjrct!).
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Re: A quick quiz

Post by davidh »

Neil,

I'm working from memory here BUT............. I understood that the Olympic monotype was a forerunner of the o-jolle and had a little less freeboard. Peter Scott took the Bronze at the 1936 Berlin Games in one, sadly pictures of this are almost non-existant.

When I was researching for the 1948 Olympic Firefly story, one of the sub plots was the issue of what boat should be used for the dinghy discipline. The o-jolle, with it's roots in Germany, was rejected (the Germans were not even allowed to compete), which left the RYA scrabbling around for a boat to sail. The British Moth was considered (yes Rupert, if things had gone differently you could be sailing in an Olympic class) but rejected - then there was a 'deal' done that saw the Firefly selected. We think we get our knickers in a twist over things today - well, the yachting mags were full of very negative comment about the advisability of sailing a Firefly, single handed, on the sea!!

In the end this shows that the rejection of the o-jolle was a shame, as it would have been a 'better' boat - perhaps! As it was, Rickard Sarby sailed the Firefly, nearly won a medal, then went home and designed the Finn....... end of story.

D
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Ed
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Re: A quick quiz

Post by Ed »

Never heard of a museum run by conservators....

Most are run by curators, but god knows, there are few enough of those about these days...

Curators....on the whole, do tend to be 'enthusiastic' about their collections....

the problem is, as you point out, is that many museums are run these days by professional museum managers, who of necessity, sometimes seem to have far less interest in their collections and more in keeping them off e-bay.

eib

ps, I think this thread has already gone off-topic

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Re: A quick quiz

Post by Ancient Geek »

Sorry Ed,
You got me riding one of my hobby horses.
Having donated several hundredweight of family papers to relavent museums I know how hard it is to get a photocopy of say an early draft of Kiplings "If"."It's in conservation" is the standard answer.
The NMM or whatever that it is called what's we ordinary folks know it as is not even a good conservation centre it wastes so much money just like the National Trust do. (Examples available under Chatham House Rules!).
The best museums are as I said run by enthusiasts, The RN Submarine Museum at Gosport, There is an excellent little museum at Dunwich on the East Heritage Coast about the lost city of Dunwich. Before they got ideas well above their brief the NMM at Greenwich had a good small boat section and it was central for a lot easily accesible for most, Falmouth is a very long way from anywhere.
The fact that it is for the masses largely disinterested inthe minute details is not really even a reason let alone an excuse for getting it wrong.
Now we can revert to topic!
These pictures are great if anyone wants them I hve a few pictures of their more modern versions sailing on the lakes, the same museum contains the otiginal finn too!
Happy Christmas or Bah Humbug Whatever your inclination.
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Re: A quick quiz

Post by Nessa »

I grew up in Berlin in the 60s and as a family we would go to the lakes there for picnics - I think this may well be where I first saw boats sailing! I plan to go to Berlin soon as a trip down memory lane and will definitely get to this museum.

If anyone is ever in the area, The Watchet Boat museum, Watchet, Somerset, is worht a visit. It's tiny but entry is free and you can see great examples of the Watchet Flatners.

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Re: A quick quiz

Post by davidh »

Nessa,

I thought this was a pic of an early Finn!
(whoops...am off topic and being disrespectful!) - and I did try so hard to be good earlier with my reply about the o-jolle, the Firefly and Finn!!

AG.... you can be forgiven IF (makes a change from BUT).. if you make some of your sailing memorabilia available for the archive!!!!

D
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Re: A quick quiz

Post by clibb »

I think the little dinghy museum in Newport, IOW, is a good example of what can be done. They certainly do more than 'curate', and restore boats in the workshop next door. Well worth a visit, and a nice day out.

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Re: A quick quiz

Post by LASERTOURIST »

Boat number 3 seems to be directly out of Manfred Currys book (most cumbersome title ever published : der aerodynamisches des segel und der kunst des regatta segeln...)
but the french edition labels these boats as "German 22 Sqare meteres class" and have a J in the sail instead of a K .
Some other pics show "German 30 Sq Metres " (with a L in the sail) and SonderKlasse (special class, with an S ).
Anyone knows how the pre war J,K,L...german classes were organized ?
Funny enough the star is mentioned as an inexpensive boat designed to attract the masses to yachting (50's vaurien or Mirror or 80's Laser style....) in the afterword of my 1930 edition...makes one wonder...
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Re: A quick quiz

Post by Ancient Geek »

There are some truly exotic classes including those listed and a few more besides on the European Lakes mainly Swiss, Austrian and German.
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