Marauder, Minisail and ???

General chat about boats
Rupert
Posts: 6255
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:40 pm
Location: Cotswold Water Park

Marauder, Minisail and ???

Post by Rupert »

Just stopping the interesting Marauder restoration topic going off at a tangent again, David...Any idea how many Marauders were built all together? More than the Peggie? Just thinking about your comments on "mainstream" boats vanishing. I'm failing to think of anything which had anything like the fall from grace the Minisail did. Most shrunken classes kept a stronghold somewhere, where the CA kept going from. Fleetwind and Pacer are 2 that spring to mind like that.
Rupert
Nessa
Posts: 2290
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:16 pm
Location: East Angular

Re: Marauder, Minisail and ???

Post by Nessa »

My Marauder is number 451. I have been sent scanned newsletters from as recently as 1991.
The Peril
Agamemnon
Lovely little Cadet
OK 1954
Xena Warrior Princess
Finn 469
Laser 2
Wayfarer World
davidh
Posts: 3166
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:43 am
Location: Ventor Isle of Wight

Re: Marauder, Minisail and ???

Post by davidh »

Rupert,

thanks for that and yes, apologies one and all for taking an otherwise v intersting subject way off topic. (BTW Rupert, you have a PM from me).

Okay... Marauder numbers.

Bell built them up into the low 600s, then there was a goodly handful or so boats built around the 623-630 by Dennis Trott. IF you can get one of these and IF is hasn't rotten - then you have a very good boat indeed for Deniis at the time was a master fireball builder.

Then there were two grp composite boats built... then in the early 1990s the last two boats were done by Ian Ridge, these were numbered 1004 and 1005.

There was one more boat built but it was never registered, nor sailed for the simple reason that it was a total, unmitigated disaster.

Nessa, I'd love to see copy of those 1991 newsletters - I either wrote them or featured somewhere along the line.

D
David H
roger
Posts: 3031
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:08 pm
Location: Frome Somerset UK

Re: Marauder, Minisail and ???

Post by roger »

what about the 11+ (as garry has just highlighted one on ebay)
Hornet 191 Shoestring,
Hornet 595 Demon awaiting restoration
Hornet 610 Final Fling
Hornet 353
davidh
Posts: 3166
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:43 am
Location: Ventor Isle of Wight

Re: Marauder, Minisail and ???

Post by davidh »

Roger,

Okay.... I'll grant you that the 11+ is a lost class BUT......wss it significant?

Hmnnnn let me see.

Yes, no or maybe.

D
David H
davidh
Posts: 3166
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:43 am
Location: Ventor Isle of Wight

Re: Marauder, Minisail and ???

Post by davidh »

Nessa,

I know that Nikki hardly needs yet more tasks but... if you can get some of the news letters (the latest ones if poss) scanned (did I write the ones you've got?) then I'd like to have a read of them.

But do not take on too many new tasks! Any day now the final, pre-publication manuscript of 'Hooked On' should be available to it will be 'all systems go' to get that read and approved.

D
David H
Nessa
Posts: 2290
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:16 pm
Location: East Angular

Re: Marauder, Minisail and ???

Post by Nessa »

David, all the newsletters were emailed to me by a chap down near Bristol. I will forward them on to you.
The Peril
Agamemnon
Lovely little Cadet
OK 1954
Xena Warrior Princess
Finn 469
Laser 2
Wayfarer World
davidh
Posts: 3166
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:43 am
Location: Ventor Isle of Wight

Re: Marauder, Minisail and ???

Post by davidh »

Nessa,

That makes sense... the last 'home' of the Marauder was at Portishead where there were 3- maybe 4 boats. One is still there but I do not think it races much now. Caroline and Nick Smith (Caroline was the helm) won the Nationals so many times they had a block booking on the podium - they also proved just how good the Marauder is as a handicap hopeful, as they won any number of big open events. They sailed a grp hull, home decked boat that was very quick right across the range of wind strengths.

Then there was the Jarvis brothers - who went on to fame and glory in the Fireball, and a Mr Freeman (can't remember his name) who was older but who could still be a race winner given the right conditions.

The 'what happened next' is a salutory lesson to struggling classes. Some, like the British Moth and the Streaker, get it right and breath new life into the class.

Others, like the Marauder, have it go very wrong on them. Some of this was almost inevitable, given the parlous state of the class. Yet there was money in the bank and interest in new boats. How and why it all went wrong is a long and complex subject, suffice to say that the final nail was driven in by a 'rogue' builder.

In the end, I sold my Marauder to a guy up at the Mendips. Then I just walked away and went out and bought a Buzz. Bliss - all I had to do was jump onboard and sail - no more faffing about onshore. Was the Buzz a better boat than the Marauder? Not a bit of it (though the Buzz was probably the best of that range of Topper boats that started with the Iso and ended with the Boss) - for a well kitted out Marauder is one of the 'nicest' boats I've had the pleasure of sailing. Smaller, nippier that the Fireball/Hornet/470, well able to sail in the light stuff as well as a blasting breeze, you thought you were sailing in a much larger boat.

Okay... enough praise for the Marauder, you'll love it!

D
David H
Michael Brigg
Posts: 1663
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 7:11 pm
Location: Gosport, UK

Re: Marauder, Minisail and ???

Post by Michael Brigg »

Perhaps things can be right under your nose David.

How many Hornets do you see these days? :cry:

It's another class that really should have it all. Fast, exciting, attractive, manageable by crews of average physique, reasonable level of "one design" and a range of alternative formats to suit every taste, and some wonderful, (and if some of your rumours are to be believed, even legendary) History! :shock: :?

You have hinted at some of the problems. An intransigent class assotiation. Some unwise decisions about builders and from other circles I have heard the welcome is not always too friendly. Perhaps the class is a little too Macho.

We touched on this once when talking about Crufts. (What is is about boats that keeps coming back to breeding and family trees and incest? Time for a thead about Beer again I think)

You love your dog because of its faults and not for its virtues. This is where boat designs fail and I'll suggest the Finn and the Star have survived so long as an Olympic class for this reason.

Perhaps a boat can be too good. It gets taken over at the top end by an ultra competetive clique, for a while and then when the thrill is gone, it is traded for a younger model. And then there is the poisoned chalice or kiss of death that is Olympic class selection. An Olympic class boat has to go for International status, and how many businesses fail through the over expansion required to conquer foreign markets such as America?
Michael Brigg
davidh
Posts: 3166
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:43 am
Location: Ventor Isle of Wight

Re: Marauder, Minisail and ???

Post by davidh »

Michael,

Amen to the thoughts on the Hornet! I'm sure that big Al will chip in at some point, or Dave C (as they raced one or two of the boats up at brightlingsea at times!!) BUT - if even there is a class that has connived at it's own demise, then it is the Hornet! In my book, only the Tornado comes anywhere close!

As you so rightly say.... they had it all and have all but lost it all. Why? Complex reasons, but an unwillingness to evolve may well have something to do with it. Strange, for a class dominated by the name 'Revolution' - that's what they needed!

Could the class be saved and re-invigorated? Well yes, in theory it could but - I do not see it happening. It can be done..witnessed by the British Moth, Streaker to name but a pair, but to do so would take more movement than the class is really willing to take. THis is not an attack on the Hornet, for there are a number of other boats very much in that league. They have have to loose a key personality or two and everything crumbles away.

This is in fact what happened to the marauder. A few individuals gave up the class, without them others were less committed to keeping things going and the end, when it came, was quite rapid.

A salutory warning then - one that some of the more 'at risk' classes could do well to heed!

D
David H
roger
Posts: 3031
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:08 pm
Location: Frome Somerset UK

Re: Marauder, Minisail and ???

Post by roger »

A coule of years ago there was a marauder racing at Sutton Bingham near Yeovil. The chap was a class chairman or ex class chairman. Cant remember his name but it may be worth contacting the club.
Hornet 191 Shoestring,
Hornet 595 Demon awaiting restoration
Hornet 610 Final Fling
Hornet 353
davidh
Posts: 3166
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:43 am
Location: Ventor Isle of Wight

Re: Marauder, Minisail and ???

Post by davidh »

Roger,

I think that is the person that bought my last boat - he came from Sutton Bingham.

I do not think theere can be many of the Trott boats left - I think I had 3 and wrecked two of those! These were boats that we'd not be able to let you anywhere near - tack too hard or fast and you'd be through the bottom of the boat in no time!!

Have started writing up about the Marauder - I may well put my email in and see what response I get!

D
David H
User avatar
PeterV
Posts: 1233
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:47 pm
Location: Locks Heath, Hampshire

Re: Marauder, Minisail and ???

Post by PeterV »

How about adding the Condor cat to your list. Very successful boat, selling in large numbers in UK and Holland, new builder takes over, changes the rig so overnight makes all the rest of the class out of date, following day the class is dead!

P.S used to be a large fleet of Mirror 14s at my old club, Leigh on Sea, nice boats.

P.P.S. What's a Marauder?
PeterV
Finn K197 & GBR564
Warsash
davidh
Posts: 3166
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:43 am
Location: Ventor Isle of Wight

Re: Marauder, Minisail and ???

Post by davidh »

Peter,

Put simply, a Marauder IS a Mirror 14!

But for the inside story on how one morphed into the other, you'll have to wait whilst I get my records out and start writing. It's a good tale though and worth the wait.

But yes, a good boat, as has been repeatedly said already. I was sat here tonight thinking about boats (as one does) and I think that at sea events, unless a real bandit arrived (as with Dave C and his seafire) I would say that a Marauder would have the beating of the Peggies - and we know how successful they were.

Sadly, the Peter Milne design was way ahead of it's time....a shame.

D
David H
JimC
Posts: 1721
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:24 pm
Location: Surrey
Contact:

Re: Marauder, Minisail and ???

Post by JimC »

davidh wrote:Sadly, the Peter Milne design was way ahead of it's time...
I'd contest that a bit... It was a boat that was on my radar in the mid 70s (then I discovered Cherubs!). Design wise it was pretty much at the state of the art at the time, roughly comparable to contemporary NZ Javelins and the like, which at that time, was a bit of an achievement as innovation in UK boats had pretty much ceased. On the other hand, with hindsight the home building boom was beginning to fade, although we probably couldn't see the signs then. Also, really even now its difficult to think of compelling reasons why one would have one instead of a Fireball, undeniably better looking though it was...
So it was an up to date design when up to date design didn't matter, a home build when home build was fading and not a Fireball when the Fireball was, I guess at the peak of its popularity and class racing did matter...
Post Reply