Is it me?

[suffolkmerlin]

Without wishing to come over as a Victor Meldrew am I alone in thinking that some of the boats, their descriptions, condition and starting/buy it now price are starting to hit the releams of fantasty on e-bay. I just feel sorry if any family with only limited knowledge buys some of the boats currently on e-bay at a highly inflated price expecting to go sailing next weekend without any problems. I know it's buyer beware but some boats do not appear to match their description. Moan over

[Ancient Geek]

No it is not you, whilst never a buyer I maintain an interest in the market and have in the past suggested that prices were escalating perhaps as result of CVRDa and others raising the interest in "projects" no doubt the usual "dealers" who buy anything inexpensive, mark it up and sell it on without adding any value and in some cases asset stripping are out there it would be odd if they were not at least looking at the vintage dinghy world.

[Nessa]

on the other hand, I picked up a bargain for £85 today - though definitely not a classic.

[Nigel]

There are a few chancers out there but on the other hand, it seems to be a lifeline for the older boat that otherwise would end up on a bonfire. Without ebay, I would never have found the lost classes that I have sailed & the chances are that no one locally would have bought them. The internet extension of the catchment area has made it possible to put the only seller in touch with possibly the only potential buyer which must be good for getting these boats preserved and used.

[suffolkmerlin]

sorry to harp on again, but looking again at e-bay there's a wooden 505 with a buy it now price of £3k, even if it was Lawries ex boat (is he the millionaire owner?) it not worth even the starting price of £1000 or is it me

[Nigel]

I wouldn't pay that but philosophically speaking anything is worth exactly what someone is prepared to pay for it.

Maybe it belonged to AG

[Ancient Geek]

Nigel is again right as to the worth of this ship but no I have never owned a 505!
From the picture it does look very origina, and at least in good nick,l could it be an Austin Farrar one? David Chivers would know, or a Tormentor one Decks look too rounded for a Fairy finished one.

[Michael Brigg]

It's swings and roundabouts. On the one hand second hand boats in poor condition should have prices that reflect their true value, or at the very least an accurate description.

How about this one!!!!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ENTERPRIZE-SAILIN ... 27b30aeed2

A genuine ebay classic that even Garry might pass over!

Dealers that do not do this risk loosing out their feedback ratings (although it is my belief that a certain number of worthless items are circulated between dealers at deflated prices specifically for the purpose of mutually inflating eachothers feedback ratings.)

However, there also needs to be a realistic price placed on a boat that has been well restored.

As AG says, it is all about market forces. I have no idea for example what makes a case of old wine from Burgundy worth $88,000, and I cant believe its the taste, so the loaded revolver reccomended to complement the experience must be required for a cure of disappointment, but that is just a personal opinion.

One of the barriers to restoration of classic boats in this country at least is the fact that you cannot begin to recoup your expenses. Noone else sails them in great numbers unless you are lucky enough to have a local club that supports a classic class (sadly less and less likeley) So the art of boat restoration remains a predominantly amatuer one, with all the advantages (and disadvantages) that carries.

The point is that if one looks at prices in USA for well restored classic boats there appears to be a realistic market price, but this perhaps reflects a larger number of sailors that want a classic yacht, but dont have the skills to restore.

However there is also the unpalateable possibility that the price may be more of a reflection of the Status that ownership of an historical or classic yachts has. This is really what the megabucks are paid for, and brings with it all the destructive danger of private collections. Extinction is inevitable if all the alpha males are removed/hunted out of the herd.

While the CVRDA is raising awareness and desire for classic yachts I am sure noone would want to err down the path of events that are little more than beauty pageants.

It is healthy for our sport in the CVRDA that older boats are regaining a realistic value that takes into account value adding work and restoration, and if the seller believes Laurie Smith's name adds a cachet to the boat he has a right to try it on (if it's true) and certain boats, (the obvious examples being the Superdocious tribe of FD's) already have this within our circles, quite apart from the quality of thier restoration. A Jolly boat was on Appollo duck recently as the boat that held the world speed record. Sureley worth a bob or two. I wished I could have had her.

We should however remain cautious of inflation of value.

An Englishman bought a donkey from an American farmer for £50. The next day when collecting it, the farmer told him the donkey was dead, and he had spent the payment already on drink.

"Never mind" said the Englishman, I'll take the Donkey anyway.

A year later they met at the same market, and the American asked the Englishman how he had done.

"I made a £48 profit, said the Englishman, I put the Donkey up for a raffle at £1 a ticket and sold 100 tickets."

"Wasn't the winner disappointed?"

"Well yes but I gave him back £2 and then he was OK."

The Englishman went on to be the Chaiman of Northern Rock...

[Michael Brigg]

For the record. If I had the money, and this was in good order, I'd buy it. Rare, beautiful and sexy.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 0450707087

But I've got a little cat... (as the song says)
And I'm very fond of that, and My wife, wont let me!!

[Ancient Geek]

Michael
I think you are mixing your music hall songs, my Grandmother spent her youth in East End Music Halls and sang all the songs to me.
Daddy wouldn't buy me a bow wow...............................

Cant get away to marry you today, my wife won't let me!!!!

At to good Burgundy or any good wine you do not need to drink it just sniff it trusssst me. You can't forge it. It is not like art when a priceless piece becomes worthless overnight when it's discovered that it's not a Titian, but a Keeting or a Myatt (At the risk of going off thread I love Keeting great quote "never do Durer"!

How long before real handicap bandits are building new "genuine" - lost vintage dinghies? The Russians are doing it with bigger boats!

I agree about the 505 by the way it does look good.

[Michael Brigg]

Michael
I think you are mixing your music hall songs, my Grandmother spent her youth in East End Music Halls and sang all the songs to me.
Daddy wouldn't buy me a bow wow...............................

Cant get away to marry you today, my wife won't let me!!!!

oops!


Thought it was too good a quote to be true!

[roger]

Guys music hall songs can hardly be called boat chat!!

[Michael Brigg]

Guys music hall songs can hardly be called boat chat!!

The context was relevant, illustrating the constraintsand merits of getting the boat I desire and the things that prevent it.

AG was correcting my references.

Heaven forfend that we should be discouraged from a little drollity in our discussions.

[Ancient Geek]

Well said Michael, everything is forgivable but being dull!

[Rupert]

The wine comparison is interesting - the classic car market seems to fit with the wine one a little, for some models - cars bought and never used because it would reduce their value. Boxed toys like Hornby trains or Dinky are also never used. I hope we never go down that route, even if the values of classic dinghies stay down. This really was where the cvrda was coming from in the first place - classic boats to be used and raced, not polished and primped.
The James May programme where he bought a very expensive toy train at auction and threw the packaging away in front of everyone was great.

If this thread is to open out beyond boating, should I just move it to banter, where it can be carried on in peace?