First Trapeze
Trapezing seems to have developed in different places independantly of each other. Southern hemisphere sailors will claim to have been using them since just after the ark, having copied them from the islands to the north. Thames A raters were pretty early, in the early 1930's, and were where Peter Scott and John Winter got the idea from fro the 14's. As to where, Thames SC.
But when did it change from being a bell rope to being a trapeze?
But when did it change from being a bell rope to being a trapeze?
Rupert
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- Location: Devon
Hi Guys
As a student of anthropology studying the cultures of Trobriands Islands and other pacific cultures. There are several references to outrigger canoes/proa's some on which the crew helped to support the mast and keep the out rigger in the water by hanging off ropes. Proper out rigger canoes and proa's carry their outriggers to windward of the mainhull(unlike the European/American practice of having the mainhull to windard) and normally load them with the crew. Bell roping is a common practise. However when this was first started I can't say as most of the research in these areas was only carried out late 19th early 20th centuary.
Cheers Al
As a student of anthropology studying the cultures of Trobriands Islands and other pacific cultures. There are several references to outrigger canoes/proa's some on which the crew helped to support the mast and keep the out rigger in the water by hanging off ropes. Proper out rigger canoes and proa's carry their outriggers to windward of the mainhull(unlike the European/American practice of having the mainhull to windard) and normally load them with the crew. Bell roping is a common practise. However when this was first started I can't say as most of the research in these areas was only carried out late 19th early 20th centuary.
Cheers Al
The American mag Yachting in 1928 had an article about Malaysian Racing Canoes. They had a device called a Tali Dogang. "From the mainmast, just above the forestay, the Tali Dogang is made fast and kept from slip[ing sown by a wooden peg. This Tali Dogang consistes of a length of manila rope, one inch in circumference, that passes through the bridle in which the son [crew] sits. I can e adjusted to any length to suit and made fast. The bridle is madeof stout canvas doubles, two inches in width, with an eyeley at either end. Now this makes a most comfortable if precarious seat, and with feet on the gunwhale the live ballast sways out and in as the boat heels to varying weights of the wind..."
And there's nothing in the article to suggest it was a brand new innovation. Years ahead and better developed than Bexher Moore's "bell rope"! So the pacific for sure. I'd be delighted to hear some detail of Alan's research to send the date back even earlier...
And there's nothing in the article to suggest it was a brand new innovation. Years ahead and better developed than Bexher Moore's "bell rope"! So the pacific for sure. I'd be delighted to hear some detail of Alan's research to send the date back even earlier...
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums. American sailing site with swearing. There was/is a good thread on Canoe developments (http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/in ... opic=22693) that degeneated into a discusion about dinghy developments.
I know the site, but I was wondering why Jim was branded thus. Mind, I read it first as AHHHHHHHHHH another Sailing Anarchy member, rather than ah ha, another Sailing Anarchy member, which it could have been, possibly meaning this topic had come up there, rather than us not wanting "their Type" on our site...(in certain cases, I agree with that).
Even I've lost track of what I was trying to say!
Even I've lost track of what I was trying to say!
Rupert
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- Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 9:54 pm
- Location: France
Trapeze has been invented much earlier than most people think.
Begian-french adventurer and writer Henri de Monfreid smuggled guns , pearls , slaves and Haschich on dhow style arabian boats in the red sea just after WW1 (1920's on) and was somthing of a french and nautical version of Lawrence of Arabia, around the french Somali coast.
His books are classic adventure stories (Les secrets de la Mer Rouge , La croisière du Haschich...and others)
He describes the Zaranig Pirates and Slave traders of the Yemenite coast
who used to sail incredibly fast for the time (outspeeding the customs and coast guard steam launches) with their tiny but overcanvassed boats the Zarougs, rigged latin style wit a short mast and huge "antenne" or yard.
He says those yemenite natives used to have a certain number of long lines fixed on top of the mast , and would wrap around a good number of rope turns around their waist and then hang outside the Zaroug hull. with their feet resting on the gunwhales..
If it is not very early trapezing then what is it?
Begian-french adventurer and writer Henri de Monfreid smuggled guns , pearls , slaves and Haschich on dhow style arabian boats in the red sea just after WW1 (1920's on) and was somthing of a french and nautical version of Lawrence of Arabia, around the french Somali coast.
His books are classic adventure stories (Les secrets de la Mer Rouge , La croisière du Haschich...and others)
He describes the Zaranig Pirates and Slave traders of the Yemenite coast
who used to sail incredibly fast for the time (outspeeding the customs and coast guard steam launches) with their tiny but overcanvassed boats the Zarougs, rigged latin style wit a short mast and huge "antenne" or yard.
He says those yemenite natives used to have a certain number of long lines fixed on top of the mast , and would wrap around a good number of rope turns around their waist and then hang outside the Zaroug hull. with their feet resting on the gunwhales..
If it is not very early trapezing then what is it?
bell ropes, trapezes and the like..........
There is a big difference between the use of the bell rope - used by the A Raters ( and yes, an idea copied from various South Sea Island approaches) to the notion of the trapeze, whereby the user wears a purpose built harness, with a hook, that actually changes the whole dynamic of sailing a dinghy in breeze.
I had long subscribed to the view that the real trapeze first hit the race course in the 1938 Prince of Wales Cup race at Falmouth. Here it was used by John Winter (with Peter Scott?) to win the coveted trophy. As the fleet know in advance that they would use it the result was allowed to stand - by the trapeze was verbotten for many a year afterwards.
Now I find though that the whole idea of the trapeze in the 14s came from a 'cabal' of sailors, amongst them Bruce Banks and Charles Curry. THen I discovered that Charles Cuurry had been sailing with his wife Bobby and had used the trapeze to allow here to sail with him despite her light weight. There is a confirmed photo of Bobby 'out on the wire' taken well in advance of the famous PoW races...so the correct answer should be that.
Make a good quizz question too.....
D
There is a big difference between the use of the bell rope - used by the A Raters ( and yes, an idea copied from various South Sea Island approaches) to the notion of the trapeze, whereby the user wears a purpose built harness, with a hook, that actually changes the whole dynamic of sailing a dinghy in breeze.
I had long subscribed to the view that the real trapeze first hit the race course in the 1938 Prince of Wales Cup race at Falmouth. Here it was used by John Winter (with Peter Scott?) to win the coveted trophy. As the fleet know in advance that they would use it the result was allowed to stand - by the trapeze was verbotten for many a year afterwards.
Now I find though that the whole idea of the trapeze in the 14s came from a 'cabal' of sailors, amongst them Bruce Banks and Charles Curry. THen I discovered that Charles Cuurry had been sailing with his wife Bobby and had used the trapeze to allow here to sail with him despite her light weight. There is a confirmed photo of Bobby 'out on the wire' taken well in advance of the famous PoW races...so the correct answer should be that.
Make a good quizz question too.....
D
David H
it's already been useddavidh wrote: Make a good quizz question too.....
D
http://www.cvrda.org/quiz/quiz_2004_answers.htm