We could possibly move the nationals for Oulton, especially as Keith said that if we had Clywedog as the venue, it probably wouldn't be on Bank Holiday.
I'd like to do at least one east coast event next year, having thoroughly enjoyed Pyefleet week at Brightlingsea, but things would have to fit together into the limited holiday time.
2010 events
Re: 2010 events
The Wroxham Classic dinghy weekend at Wroxham is for classics, its just the straight stemmers like it so much that their numbers have been increasing. The event is staged so its up to the other classes to get there. Its handicap racing with adjustments using both the two extra systems - Mervyn Allen's for Merlins and Jamie Campbells for everyone which can only be described as random, ad hoc, unfair but truly in the spirit of CVRDA.
I have to admit that a few of us easterners have been talking about doing a limited series in the east. The bulk of the present and past CVRDA events are biased towards the SW mainly due to the weight of numbers down there. No problems with that but a continual thrash across the smoke or round M25 towing an old dinghy is daunting and so off putting.
We have superb sheltered sea sailing along with river/rersevoir/lake venues so we get a good variety of water and have the heritage too. It seems silly now that travelling costs have crept up again to take on the M25 when we can in no more than about 90 mins of gentle motoring be at Ardleigh, Brightlingsea,Wroxham/Oulton Broads, Hunts, Alton Water,Royal Harwich, Waldringfield without touching the M25 or any holiday routes.
If things get going we will let you know.
I have to admit that a few of us easterners have been talking about doing a limited series in the east. The bulk of the present and past CVRDA events are biased towards the SW mainly due to the weight of numbers down there. No problems with that but a continual thrash across the smoke or round M25 towing an old dinghy is daunting and so off putting.
We have superb sheltered sea sailing along with river/rersevoir/lake venues so we get a good variety of water and have the heritage too. It seems silly now that travelling costs have crept up again to take on the M25 when we can in no more than about 90 mins of gentle motoring be at Ardleigh, Brightlingsea,Wroxham/Oulton Broads, Hunts, Alton Water,Royal Harwich, Waldringfield without touching the M25 or any holiday routes.
If things get going we will let you know.
Re: 2010 events
Nationals at Oulton - Great Idea! (But I would say that - wouldn't I!?!) It could be combined with Oulton Week, say maybe Sun, Mon & Tue, for the Nationals (thus allowing people that cann't do the week to complete a series - that would(should) give nine races - is this enough), and also allow people if they so wished to stay on for the remaining three days.. Or you could have the whole week and call it the Nationals allowing 17 races...
During Oulton Week, when the dinghies are racing they do have the Broad to themselves and when the leadmines are sailing they have the Broad to themselves - thus allowing great spectator sport to both styles of sailor, and minimal interferance..
Or It could be on a weekend - Bank Holiday Monday weekends are not possible as the Lowestoft and Oulton Broad Powerboat Club have the monopoly on the Broad for thier racing on these days (Unless you fancied a river race to Somerlayton or St Olaves and back on the Monday (might be a nice way to round off the weekend). Starting at the Club and finishing at a Committee Boat on the river, and then to be escorted through the Broad like royalty in a break in the Powerboat racing!
Jon
During Oulton Week, when the dinghies are racing they do have the Broad to themselves and when the leadmines are sailing they have the Broad to themselves - thus allowing great spectator sport to both styles of sailor, and minimal interferance..
Or It could be on a weekend - Bank Holiday Monday weekends are not possible as the Lowestoft and Oulton Broad Powerboat Club have the monopoly on the Broad for thier racing on these days (Unless you fancied a river race to Somerlayton or St Olaves and back on the Monday (might be a nice way to round off the weekend). Starting at the Club and finishing at a Committee Boat on the river, and then to be escorted through the Broad like royalty in a break in the Powerboat racing!
Jon
-
Ancient Geek
- Posts: 1133
- Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:50 am
- Location: Sletten,3250, Denmark and Hampshire GU33 7LR UK
Re: 2010 events
Or through the lock to Lake Lothing? There used to be courses at least in the "Green Book", even, if it was a quiet day at sea.
No doubt John remembers the Songs sung at The Commodore when Ivan Drby was landlord and it was a pub, about Somerleyton and Farmer Giles and the one about the Royal Norfolk & Suffolk (In its less polite name) and the WOBYC?
No doubt John remembers the Songs sung at The Commodore when Ivan Drby was landlord and it was a pub, about Somerleyton and Farmer Giles and the one about the Royal Norfolk & Suffolk (In its less polite name) and the WOBYC?
Simples.
Re: 2010 events
It would appear that we are getting into a familiar 'east/ west is best' scenario, I believe both have pros and cons which will not make any difference to attendance figures,but no matter how much we wax lyrical about heritage and acheivement, the distance to events is the 'deal breaker'.
A good deal of us I am sure are sailing CVRDA boats because we no longer wish to campaign on the open circuit in our chosen class, but wish to enjoy time on the water without the extra time and expense that an open meeting circuit involves. We therefore pick and choose our events more carefully with distance and cost as the prime motivator.
Perhaps we should look to the middle of our area of membership to find a venue for our premier event that can mean a similar distance for all to cover.
So what is there to offer in this area which would fit our criteria and be interested and capable of hosting us?
A good deal of us I am sure are sailing CVRDA boats because we no longer wish to campaign on the open circuit in our chosen class, but wish to enjoy time on the water without the extra time and expense that an open meeting circuit involves. We therefore pick and choose our events more carefully with distance and cost as the prime motivator.
Perhaps we should look to the middle of our area of membership to find a venue for our premier event that can mean a similar distance for all to cover.
So what is there to offer in this area which would fit our criteria and be interested and capable of hosting us?
GBR74 ex custodian of
GBR384 Mickey Finnale (Taylor,wood)
GBR455 Rubber Duck (Taylor, grp)
FD GBR350 Supercalifragalisticexpialidocious
GBR384 Mickey Finnale (Taylor,wood)
GBR455 Rubber Duck (Taylor, grp)
FD GBR350 Supercalifragalisticexpialidocious
Re: 2010 events
Good point well made Graham.
As far as middle England Venues are concerned the nearest we have is Whitefriars or Bough Beech(ok its hardly central but it is as easy to get to from the west asit is from the East). Unless someone else can suggest a club to host an event bearing in mind that past experience shows that the host club needs a good home base of interested members to swell numbers and organise.
It must also be profitable to the host club so does need a few travellers or they wont have us again.
As far as middle England Venues are concerned the nearest we have is Whitefriars or Bough Beech(ok its hardly central but it is as easy to get to from the west asit is from the East). Unless someone else can suggest a club to host an event bearing in mind that past experience shows that the host club needs a good home base of interested members to swell numbers and organise.
It must also be profitable to the host club so does need a few travellers or they wont have us again.
Hornet 191 Shoestring,
Hornet 595 Demon awaiting restoration
Hornet 610 Final Fling
Hornet 353
Hornet 595 Demon awaiting restoration
Hornet 610 Final Fling
Hornet 353
-
Ancient Geek
- Posts: 1133
- Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:50 am
- Location: Sletten,3250, Denmark and Hampshire GU33 7LR UK
-
alan williams
- Posts: 1650
- Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 10:44 pm
- Location: Devon
Re: 2010 events
How about asking Peter V in that his new club is only about 35mile from the geographical centre of England.
Cheers Al
Cheers Al
Re: 2010 events
We do have clasic (& vintage boats) that only come out for cruising, thier owners believe (not totally mistakenly) that they will not be competitive against L****r's, RS whatever's and other modern boats. If we had a fleet of visitors in Classsic and Vintage boats, then these people may be encouraged to use the older boats in thier personal fleets instead of the modern boats they would normally consider racing. If the CVRDA wishes to increase it's membership (and I admit I'm not a member - still looking for the right boat!), then they need to promote themselves in the provences - and the only way to do that is have a presence...Rupert wrote:Hi Jon - sorry, I meant the Oulton committee!
I quite agree that the Norfolk Broads are an ideal playground for classic boats. What we have found, though, is that established classic classes have very little need for the cvrda at a racing level, and that we seem to thrive in areas where there is a hodgepodge of different classes. The best approach would seem to me to get enough of the local boats interested to get a classic handicap start put on, at least for a long weekend, then to say on here, "we have a start, come play", and then to go back to more of the local fleet and say "we have boats coming from further away, it will be great, come play", and hopefully build momentum that way.
So I believe that there need to be more events in the following areas. Scotland, East Coast, North West, North East and what about Northern & Southern Ireland there are many local classes in all of these areas that are eligable for CVRDA status. If the CVRDA went to these places and flew the flag, it would
1) Increase interest in Classic Boats (similar to the interest in Classic Cars)
2)Increase the CVRDA membership (as people in the outposts (Is Lowestoft an outpost?) would realise the CVRDA exist
3)An increased variety of sailing areas for all members..
I'm sure there are other reasons....
Our hodgepodge collection of classic craft are owned by sailors who also have modern craft, surely this is not the exception? If we were to support CVRDA eligable boats, then these owners may consider racing thier classics, rather than thier Veryslos, L****s, or RS whatevers.....
Re: 2010 events
at risk of going further off topic it's worth looking at why the CVRDA was formed. It was established as a number of people wanted to race their boats against other similar boats, not L****r's, RS whatever's and other modern boats.
There's been several posts about regional fleets of classic boats, Dragons etc. It's not these fleets that the CVRDA needs to make contact with - it's the displaced owners of old boats that are the target audience.
Maybe it's a social-economic issue. In the South West we earn less money, are a lot less consumerist than the South and South-East and have a better quality of life away from the need to show our wealth by the number of toys we own. Conspicuous Consumption is a rariety in Devon and Cornwall (except Rock of course
). I think this is the reason why the CVRDA is a sucess in the South West (and places like Clywedog) as it's about people who have old boats that want to go sailing and have some fun doing so.
Having seen some of the classic fleets of local one-designs around the country and some of the classic keelboats classes I have to say there's nothing in common with the CVRDA ethos. The boats may be classic or vintage but there's often an arms race to keep boats competetive. If there's that sort of attitude then the class certainly does not need the CVRDA.
I don't think the CVRDA has to make a case, or go and be a pathfinder. If people are out there with old boats then come along to exisiting events or put on your own event under the CVRDA ethos. The hard work has been done. There's a template in place, the handicaps are sorted - just take them, use them and enjoy the racing.
There's been several posts about regional fleets of classic boats, Dragons etc. It's not these fleets that the CVRDA needs to make contact with - it's the displaced owners of old boats that are the target audience.
Maybe it's a social-economic issue. In the South West we earn less money, are a lot less consumerist than the South and South-East and have a better quality of life away from the need to show our wealth by the number of toys we own. Conspicuous Consumption is a rariety in Devon and Cornwall (except Rock of course
). I think this is the reason why the CVRDA is a sucess in the South West (and places like Clywedog) as it's about people who have old boats that want to go sailing and have some fun doing so. Having seen some of the classic fleets of local one-designs around the country and some of the classic keelboats classes I have to say there's nothing in common with the CVRDA ethos. The boats may be classic or vintage but there's often an arms race to keep boats competetive. If there's that sort of attitude then the class certainly does not need the CVRDA.
I don't think the CVRDA has to make a case, or go and be a pathfinder. If people are out there with old boats then come along to exisiting events or put on your own event under the CVRDA ethos. The hard work has been done. There's a template in place, the handicaps are sorted - just take them, use them and enjoy the racing.
Re: 2010 events
Neil, I understand where you are coming from (to use awfull modern English). Maybe I misunderstood what the CVRDA was about. I believed it was about making the wrecks we see in every dinghy park go out sailing. A lot of these forgotten boats are of CVRDA vintage or are even lost classes. The simple fact is that they were not sailed because they were (are) uncompetetive aginst L****s.
I think you will find East Anglia is as equally financially depressed as other areas. In all parts of the country there are people with money and those without. You have seven boats (and I congratulate you for that - I am trying to support one modern dinghy (still looking for a classic!)), but there are people who struggle to afford one, and that usually is the wreck in the dinghy park, that they have lost interest in sailing, because they were uncompetitive (It's always the boat - not the sailor).
I think you need to exclude East Anglia from your comment about the South East. East anglia has a HUGE financial divide, there are people with loads of money (small minority) and lot's of people with next to nothing and old boats that they enjoy.
Maybe if we had CVRDA events in the area then it could encourage people to restore thier boats, and take them sailing.
If we were (Oulton Broad) to hold a CVRDA event would the CVRDA support it, or sue us for breach of trademark!!!(a little tongue in cheek). Clubs will not hold events for CVRDA eligable boats unless they know about the CVRDA. My club had not heard about the CVRDA until I mentioned and discussed it with them. How many other clubs are you missing?????
Jon
I think you will find East Anglia is as equally financially depressed as other areas. In all parts of the country there are people with money and those without. You have seven boats (and I congratulate you for that - I am trying to support one modern dinghy (still looking for a classic!)), but there are people who struggle to afford one, and that usually is the wreck in the dinghy park, that they have lost interest in sailing, because they were uncompetitive (It's always the boat - not the sailor).
I think you need to exclude East Anglia from your comment about the South East. East anglia has a HUGE financial divide, there are people with loads of money (small minority) and lot's of people with next to nothing and old boats that they enjoy.
Maybe if we had CVRDA events in the area then it could encourage people to restore thier boats, and take them sailing.
If we were (Oulton Broad) to hold a CVRDA event would the CVRDA support it, or sue us for breach of trademark!!!(a little tongue in cheek). Clubs will not hold events for CVRDA eligable boats unless they know about the CVRDA. My club had not heard about the CVRDA until I mentioned and discussed it with them. How many other clubs are you missing?????
Jon
Re: 2010 events
Bough Beech SC may be able to host a Nationals though Bank Holiday weekends are pretty busy so early booking would be essential.
Harrier 25
505 7163
505 7163
Re: 2010 events
Responding to Alan's comment:
Staunton Harold is a wonderful venue that would be ideal, but there's no classic basis locally to build on. The club sails Lasers, Fireballs and RS's, the only old boats are my Finn and a single Pegasus. I've tried to find if there's any other clubs locally sailing old dinghies, there was a classic open at a sailing club on the Trent last year but not this year. I think there's a few Merlin and N12 events around, I'll see if these have any classic fleets.
Basically, there's no point trying for a CVRDA event until we can be sure of a more significant local interest.
Staunton Harold is a wonderful venue that would be ideal, but there's no classic basis locally to build on. The club sails Lasers, Fireballs and RS's, the only old boats are my Finn and a single Pegasus. I've tried to find if there's any other clubs locally sailing old dinghies, there was a classic open at a sailing club on the Trent last year but not this year. I think there's a few Merlin and N12 events around, I'll see if these have any classic fleets.
Basically, there's no point trying for a CVRDA event until we can be sure of a more significant local interest.
PeterV
Finn K197 & GBR564
Warsash
Finn K197 & GBR564
Warsash
Re: 2010 events
Sorry Neil, just remebered, Salcombe was really cheap last time I went there... (I do hope this is not going to turn into a SW versus everyone else competitiion). The members of the CVRDA need to get on the road and promote themselves. VERY FEW PEOPLE HAVE HEARD OF YOU. (sorry for shouting). The only way you will do this, is when a club offers starts or opens, is not to dis (How modern am I??) the club involved but to support the club and the efforts made by the club members.
SO WILL WE SEE YOU AT OULTON???
It seems that the CVRDA mafia have a priblem with the East Coast - let's remember Nelson learnt to sail on the Broads
SO WILL WE SEE YOU AT OULTON???
It seems that the CVRDA mafia have a priblem with the East Coast - let's remember Nelson learnt to sail on the Broads
Re: 2010 events
Right. Last post from me on this subject as otherwise I'll have to moderate myself and I don't think that's legal.
errr.....can I point out that I come from Norfolk, used to live by Barton Broad, learned to sail in Norfolk, went to the same school as Nelson (and Allan Smethurst - can't get any more Norfolk than that), learned to build boats in Norfolk etc.....there is no CVRDA mafia, there is no problem with the East Coast.
Historically the CVRDA was established in the South West - that's why we've just had the 10th anniversary at Roadford. If you go back the past ten years you'll see there's been a number of events, even some on the East Coast. As I've said at least twice on the forum I can't commit now to events in a year's time (I'd imagine very few people could). I'd like to though, as I've not sailed at Wroxham for many years and if I'm dragging a boat to Norfolk I'd stay for Oulton (and apparently the A11 is like a motorway now
)
I do feel we are entering Ground Hog territory once again - must be the time of year.
Dispute the fact that no-one's heard of the CVRDA considering 350,000 website visits a month from about 5000 unique visitors, and Google loves us.
Must be time to go and hibernate in the boat shed and get some old boats sorted out (as isn't that what the CVRDA is about?). Think I'll come back in the spring.
errr.....can I point out that I come from Norfolk, used to live by Barton Broad, learned to sail in Norfolk, went to the same school as Nelson (and Allan Smethurst - can't get any more Norfolk than that), learned to build boats in Norfolk etc.....there is no CVRDA mafia, there is no problem with the East Coast.
Historically the CVRDA was established in the South West - that's why we've just had the 10th anniversary at Roadford. If you go back the past ten years you'll see there's been a number of events, even some on the East Coast. As I've said at least twice on the forum I can't commit now to events in a year's time (I'd imagine very few people could). I'd like to though, as I've not sailed at Wroxham for many years and if I'm dragging a boat to Norfolk I'd stay for Oulton (and apparently the A11 is like a motorway now
)I do feel we are entering Ground Hog territory once again - must be the time of year.
Dispute the fact that no-one's heard of the CVRDA considering 350,000 website visits a month from about 5000 unique visitors, and Google loves us.
Must be time to go and hibernate in the boat shed and get some old boats sorted out (as isn't that what the CVRDA is about?). Think I'll come back in the spring.