Hi, I am quite confused about the handicap system that cvrda have introduced, please could someone show me the factual information how clasic boats get their handicaps, the reason for this is that sailing at Bosham Sailing Club last weekend which was fantastic, the National 18
were given several different handicaps, one for not carrying a spinaker, and secondlyI dont see how a figure can be reached, your observations
please
Martin
Handicaps
Re: Handicaps
Hi Martin,
The Bosham event uses a different system of handicapping to the cvrda, as they have so many boats there which only sail in that area, and have no equivalent cvrda handicap. I hope the organizers can shed light on the matter.
The normal cvrda handicaps are a little more straight forward, being based on 1965 3 figure handicaps, adjusted for boat age and state of tune, based on what we have seen over the last decade or so.
The Bosham event uses a different system of handicapping to the cvrda, as they have so many boats there which only sail in that area, and have no equivalent cvrda handicap. I hope the organizers can shed light on the matter.
The normal cvrda handicaps are a little more straight forward, being based on 1965 3 figure handicaps, adjusted for boat age and state of tune, based on what we have seen over the last decade or so.
Rupert
Re: Handicaps
Hi Martin,
was that you sailing in the Merlin? When I saw the A rater going afloat I thought that might have been you, but on asking the crew said that they were all considerably better looking (not to mention quicker) so I looked for you elsewhere. BTW, I may have a couple of nice pics from the event.
I too was a tad confused at some of the PYs but as I was just a guest at the event didn't wish to comment openly. Now in particular, the N18 PY is a subject 'dear to my heart'. Years past, someone took the N18 rules and built a boat that conformed but was rigged as per a state of the art boat, on a lightweight flattish hull form. We used to have an event called the Pomey Perisher, a forerunner of the big winter events of today. This particular year we were sailing a highly competitive 505; We'd just won the Burnham icicle, the Wiinter event at Hayling and 'horizon jobbed' the fleet at the Perisher, only to finish a well distant second to this 'modded' n18 that had the same PY (or so it seemed) as an Optimist!
The organisers were less than happy, for it was clear to all that justice had not been done - in subsequent years, they assured competitors that they'd not get caught napping again. (and people wonder why when they turn up at the Bloody Mary or A N Other event in something 'new' they get a swingeing PY at first......).
PYs, how they work and how they can be manipulated just happen to be one of the 'specialist subjects' - one that probably puts me at odds with some sections of the dinghy sailing scene but that said, I do try to take a 'looking across the piece perspective', hence my comments elsewhere on this forum about the Merlins rigged with carbon/mylar - it is my own view that whilst you can do as you wish, it does rather smack of "c'est magnifique mais ce ne pas le sport" (and incidentally, why I was vocal in my views that a boat equipped in this manner would struggle in the concours prizes).
The classics scene is clearly evolving fast, when you hear people asking "what boat do I need to be sailing to win the event" you realise just how quickly things are catching up with the mainstream.
PYs are a hugely emotive subject and one that will not go away. As one who was at Bosham 'observing' (as good hacks are wont to) my thinking was that the classic fleet is probably developing faster than the changes in the PY system and that it is this that is creating the anomolies.
Dougal
was that you sailing in the Merlin? When I saw the A rater going afloat I thought that might have been you, but on asking the crew said that they were all considerably better looking (not to mention quicker) so I looked for you elsewhere. BTW, I may have a couple of nice pics from the event.
I too was a tad confused at some of the PYs but as I was just a guest at the event didn't wish to comment openly. Now in particular, the N18 PY is a subject 'dear to my heart'. Years past, someone took the N18 rules and built a boat that conformed but was rigged as per a state of the art boat, on a lightweight flattish hull form. We used to have an event called the Pomey Perisher, a forerunner of the big winter events of today. This particular year we were sailing a highly competitive 505; We'd just won the Burnham icicle, the Wiinter event at Hayling and 'horizon jobbed' the fleet at the Perisher, only to finish a well distant second to this 'modded' n18 that had the same PY (or so it seemed) as an Optimist!
The organisers were less than happy, for it was clear to all that justice had not been done - in subsequent years, they assured competitors that they'd not get caught napping again. (and people wonder why when they turn up at the Bloody Mary or A N Other event in something 'new' they get a swingeing PY at first......).
PYs, how they work and how they can be manipulated just happen to be one of the 'specialist subjects' - one that probably puts me at odds with some sections of the dinghy sailing scene but that said, I do try to take a 'looking across the piece perspective', hence my comments elsewhere on this forum about the Merlins rigged with carbon/mylar - it is my own view that whilst you can do as you wish, it does rather smack of "c'est magnifique mais ce ne pas le sport" (and incidentally, why I was vocal in my views that a boat equipped in this manner would struggle in the concours prizes).
The classics scene is clearly evolving fast, when you hear people asking "what boat do I need to be sailing to win the event" you realise just how quickly things are catching up with the mainstream.
PYs are a hugely emotive subject and one that will not go away. As one who was at Bosham 'observing' (as good hacks are wont to) my thinking was that the classic fleet is probably developing faster than the changes in the PY system and that it is this that is creating the anomolies.
Dougal
David H
Re: Handicaps
The original idea behind the cvrda was (and Ed or Rupert will correct me if I am wrong) was to enable outdated old boats to race on as near as level playing field as PY will allow with a more modern or updated boat.
Hence when I sailed a revo Hornet I was accused of pot hunting and suggested that the handcap for that boat should be increased. Now when I occasionally finish a race in Shoestring I am nowhere near the results i used to achieve in the modern boat so maybe the handicap should be tweaked.
as with all handicap racing it will never be totally fair. However we had some fun at Wraysbury when the persuit times were based on the previous days results.
See you on the Thames
Hence when I sailed a revo Hornet I was accused of pot hunting and suggested that the handcap for that boat should be increased. Now when I occasionally finish a race in Shoestring I am nowhere near the results i used to achieve in the modern boat so maybe the handicap should be tweaked.
as with all handicap racing it will never be totally fair. However we had some fun at Wraysbury when the persuit times were based on the previous days results.
See you on the Thames
Hornet 191 Shoestring,
Hornet 595 Demon awaiting restoration
Hornet 610 Final Fling
Hornet 353
Hornet 595 Demon awaiting restoration
Hornet 610 Final Fling
Hornet 353
Re: Handicaps
Quite agree Shoestring needs a better handicap. I think we tried in the past, but you kept on breaking it so we never figured out if it was right...roger wrote:
Hence when I sailed a revo Hornet I was accused of pot hunting and suggested that the handcap for that boat should be increased. Now when I occasionally finish a race in Shoestring I am nowhere near the results i used to achieve in the modern boat so maybe the handicap should be tweaked.
The answer to "which boat should I sail to get the best result?", maybe should be "the older one with cotton sails", in an ideal world. However, I shall carry on sailing boats with a few more mod cons even when being beaten hollow by boats flying tablecloths!
Rupert